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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 865300" data-attributes="member: 9410">I'm sorry, Josh, but I'm unclear on what you're angry/upset/irritated (or whatever) by, whether it's me, Rangers having spells, or what...  In any case, I'll assume those questions weren't rhetorical...Well, if you want to believe that Rangers shouldn't have spells, this will go nowhere, and you can save time and skip to the next paragraph...  For the rest of us 1Ers, it is obvious that Tolkien's Rangers were the basis for 1e's.  Lela had previously posted that the Ranger Archetype was supposed to fit Robinhood, Aragorn, and Drizzt, but that only Drizzt had ever cast spells.  I posted the above quote from The Fellowship of the Ring to show that Rangers had (as in 1e) certain abilities of Clairaudience, Clairvoyance, ESP, and Telepathy, as well as the ability to speak with birds and beasts.Exactly what is that supposed to prove?  That the 1e Ranger fit the Aragorn model upon which it was modeled.  The ability to speak with birds and beasts certainly fits in with Speak with Animals.  There is a basis for it, and not just with Drizzt.It certainly doesn't mean that they weren't!We must not be reading the same books...  Aragorn has some pretty amazing powers of perception, even to the point of reading thoughts, it seems at times (this isn't really so amazing since Tolkien's Elves were often able to do this, as well).I can post you a bunch of quotes, if you like, but frankly I don't think you'll be convinced, because I don't believe that you want to be... right?  In that case, there's no use getting annoyed with those of us who believe Rangers should have spells (or in arguing with me about it).In any case, here are a few choice quotes for you:"Frodo found that Strider was now looking at him, as if he had heard or guessed all that had been said."  FotR:186."'No more than you can afford,' answered Strider with a slow smile, as if he guessed Frodo's thoughts."  FotR:194."'Ponies would not help us to escape horsemen,' he said at last, thoughtfully, as if he had guessed what Frodo had in mind."  FotR:210.In Tolkien terms, or 3e terms, or what?  Tolkien rarely (if ever) uses the word.  In fact, when Sam asks the Elves of Lothlorien if their ropes are "magic", they don't know what that means, but tell him that it is, indeed, Elvish.  If Rangers can see the Unseen, and speak with birds and beasts, then that is, indeed, a Preternatural (transcending the normal course of nature) or Supernatural (of an order of existance outside the natural world, attributed to divine power) ability...  And Speaking to Animals is not only possible, in Middle-earth, but also a spell in 1, 2, and 3e."'Where did you learn such tales, if all the land is empty and forgetful?' asked Peregrin.  'The birds and beasts do not tell tales of that sort.'"  FotR:236.Tolkien doesn't say "Then Aragorn cast a spell", no...  But what is he doing, here?"He sat down on the ground, and taking the dagger-hilt laid it on his knees, and he sang over it a slow song in a strange tongue.  Then setting it aside, he turned to Frodo and in a soft tone spoke words the others could not catch.  From the pouch at his belt he drew out the long leaves of a plant."  FotR:233.And, seeing how Tolkien doesn't bother to tell us when someone is using magic, how do we know that Aragorn did not use Locate Animals or Plants to find the Athelas by scent, in the dark, near Weather-top?"'These leaves,' he said, 'I have walked far to find; for this plant does not grow in the bare hills; but in the thickets away south of the Road I found it in the dark by the scent of the leaves."  FotR:233.Some people think Rangers deserve spells, others don't.  There are two ways to fix it: Either make them optional, or create two different Rangerish classes.  I fixed this in my own Alternate Ranger Version by allowing Rangers to trade away spells, if they wished.Since the Ranger is an inferior Scout, Skirmisher, and Spy compared to the Rogue, however, and has fewer skill points to boot, I can't see taking them away, too.  As always, YMMV.[Edit: Format fix.]</blockquote>

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