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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 865789" data-attributes="member: 2205">None of the above, I just have a personal pet peeve of presenting evidence that doesn't actually prove your point, and then claiming that it does.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />Uhh, I'm a former 1er too.  Tolkien's rangers do seem to be the basis for the ranger class, but that doesn't mean that the translation from Tolkien to D&D was a good one.  Your quote most certainly does not show that rangers have Clairaudience, Clairvoyance, ESP or Telepahty or the ability to speak with birds and beasts.  If you want to find quotes, find some where Aragorn (or even better yet, a ranger other than Aragorn, since Aragorn, as the heir of Elendil and one of the stars of the books, was unique) actually uses some of those abilities you list.  Instead, what you give me is what the superstitious Bree-folk (who are shown to be just about as clueless as the Shirefolk in terms of the real world) believe about the rangers and a bunch of quotes that show that Aragorn was intelligent, observant, wise and had quite a bit of experience with human nature.  Somehow I don't see how that does anything at all towards making him a spellcaster.As I said before ... high levels in spot, search, listen and animal empathy.  Maybe in Sense Motive too, although maybe he just has a very high wisdom score.  His powers aren't really that amazing... Frodo shows equally amazing powers of fortitude, but nobody suggests giving him buffing spells, for instance.I'm not annoyed with you wanting to have a ranger class with spells, but don't decieve yourself into thinking that you've presented anything at all like convincing evidence that Aragorn ever cast anything like a spell, or did anything else overtly supernatural at all.  Clearly, throughout the books, he did not.Aragorn never speaks to animals.  And I'm talking strictly about Tolkien, not D&D.  The D&D ranger is (and always has been) a very poor reflection of Aragorn, even though that's clearly what it tried to be.  Rangers also don't see the unseen.  They are neither preternatural nor supernatural in Tolkien, they merely have a lot of experience with living in the wilds.  Aragorn, after all, is over 150 years old when we first see him, and has spent most of his life in what you or I would call extremely intensive training.  If that could be captured in D&D terms, it would merely mean that he was high level, not that he was casting spells or utilizing supernatural abilities.Not casting a spell.  Aragorn himself said repeatedly that it was the plant itself, and it's inherent virtue, that does the trick with helping Frodo until he can be taken to Rivendell and given true, probably supernatural, healing at the hand of Elrond himself.What do you mean Tolkien doesn't bother telling us when someone is using magic?  He clearly does so whenever Gandalf, Saruman or Galadriel is using "magic."  He doesn't bother to tell us Aragorn is ever using magic -- to me that is much more indicative of the fact that he is not, not that Tolkien is just dodgy about it.What I think I see is, that despite the fact that you are trying to paint me as someone who won't look at evidence right in front of my face that clearly points to the ranger using spells, that's quite clearly not going on.I don't believe Aragorn is a good ranger archetype to begin with, so I don't care if the D&D class represents him well or not (your "motive" for my "unreasonableness.")  However, I don't believe that the ranger class makes a good Aragorn.  The "evidence" you've been able to come up with certainly does not prove that Aragorn used any spells, and it doesn't even suggest strongly that it does.  Rather than accusing me of bias, you should have a look around.  Those quotes don't suggest spell use to anyone except one who goes into looking for spell use.  Even then, the best they can provide is vague hints that, IMO at least, can be better interpreted otherwise.</blockquote>

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