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Confirming the 4e Math, Stage 1: Iconics
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 4761528" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>For a while, the boards have been debating the 4e math. I have made the contention many times that you cannot explore the high levels mathematically without a heavy investigation into the interact of powers and effects at those levels. Well...its time to do that. To get started, I am creating an "iconic" party of 1 defender, controller, striker, and leader.</p><p></p><p>I have decided to use 21st level as a good basis. I am only using the core 4 books (PH1, DMG, MM, Adventurer's Vault-yes I consider it a core book) as this represents many of the default assumptions that went into the system.</p><p></p><p>My goal is to personify each of the roles in a way that is fairly optimized, but also makes sense to play. I have created the 4 using the character builder, and before I do a detailed analysis, I submit them to the boards for feedback.</p><p></p><p>The goal is NOT to twink these iconics, the goal is to see if they carry a set of powers, feats, items, and abilities that tend to fit their desired role well. I am not looking for big changes to these characters, mainly tweaks here and there unless I have selected something that absolutely makes no sense.</p><p></p><p>A few notes: For equipment I went with 1 22nd level item, 1 21st, and 1 20th, with 125,000 gp (this is the standard money for 21st level). I chose a brutal scoundrel rogue as I feel that fits the striker role better. I chose an elf for this role, because elves are badass<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> For the wizard, I gave him a +1 AC bump because the character builder wouldn't let me put the staff in one hand...which from what I understand is allowed now by the rules. Finally, for the cleric and wizard I didn't record their rituals because it won't affect the analysis, but I took out a chunk of their gold which I assumed would be spent on items.</p><p></p><p>Without further ado:</p><p></p><p><strong>Iconic Defender</strong></p><p></p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p><p>Iconic Fighter, level 21</p><p>Dragonborn, Fighter, Swordmaster, Demigod</p><p>Fighter Talents: One-handed Weapon Talent</p><p>Divine Spark: Divine Spark Strength</p><p>Divine Spark: Divine Spark Dexterity</p><p></p><p>FINAL ABILITY SCORES</p><p>Str 27, Con 12, Dex 24, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 15.</p><p></p><p>Starting Ability Scores</p><p>Str 17, Con 10, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 11.</p><p></p><p></p><p>AC: 39 Fort: 35 Reflex: 34 Will: 28</p><p>HP: 172 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 46</p><p></p><p>TRAINED SKILLS</p><p>Intimidate, Streetwise, Athletics.</p><p></p><p>FEATS</p><p>1: Shield Push</p><p>2: Enlarged Dragon Breath</p><p>4: Toughness</p><p>6: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword)</p><p>8: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)</p><p>10: Blade Opportunist</p><p>11: Blood Thirst (retrained to Epic Resurgence at Level 21)</p><p>12: Devastating Critical</p><p>14: Heavy Blade Opportunity</p><p>16: Shield Specialization</p><p>18: Armor Specialization (Scale)</p><p>20: Iron Will</p><p>21: Heavy Blade Mastery</p><p></p><p>POWERS</p><p>1, At-Will: Tide of Iron</p><p>1, At-Will: Cleave</p><p>1, Encounter: Passing Attack</p><p>1, Daily: Comeback Strike</p><p>2, Utility: Boundless Endurance</p><p>3, Encounter: Sweeping Blow</p><p>5, Daily: Rain of Steel</p><p>6, Utility: Unbreakable</p><p>7, Encounter: Come and Get It</p><p>9, Daily: Thicket of Blades</p><p>10, Utility: Stalwart Guard</p><p>13, Encounter: Storm of Blows (replaces Passing Attack)</p><p>15, Daily: Unyielding Avalanche (replaces Comeback Strike)</p><p>16, Utility: Interposing Shield</p><p>17, Encounter: Harrying Assault (replaces Storm of Blows)</p><p>19, Daily: Strike of the Watchful Guard (replaces Thicket of Blades)</p><p></p><p>ITEMS</p><p>Retribution Bastard sword +5, Summoned Nagascale Armor +5, Brooch of Vitality +4, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier), Belt of Vigor (paragon tier), Solitaire (Citrine) (paragon tier), Helm of Battle (heroic tier), Assault Boots (paragon tier), War Ring (paragon tier), Ricochet Shield Heavy Shield (paragon tier)</p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Iconic Striker</strong></p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p><p>Iconic Rogue, level 21</p><p>Elf, Rogue, Daggermaster, Deadly Trickster</p><p>Rogue Tactics: Brutal Scoundrel</p><p></p><p>FINAL ABILITY SCORES</p><p>Str 22, Con 12, Dex 25, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 12.</p><p></p><p>Starting Ability Scores</p><p>Str 16, Con 10, Dex 17, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10.</p><p></p><p></p><p>AC: 36 Fort: 30 Reflex: 35 Will: 26</p><p>HP: 124 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 31</p><p></p><p>TRAINED SKILLS</p><p>Stealth, Thievery, Perception, Insight, Acrobatics, Athletics, Nature.</p><p></p><p>FEATS</p><p>1: Elven Precision</p><p>2: Backstabber</p><p>4: Surprise Knockdown</p><p>6: Improved Initiative</p><p>8: Nimble Blade</p><p>10: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)</p><p>11: Danger Sense</p><p>12: Devastating Critical</p><p>14: Two-Weapon Fighting</p><p>16: Warrior of the Wild</p><p>18: Two-Weapon Defense</p><p>20: Agile Athlete</p><p>21: Triumphant Attack</p><p></p><p>POWERS</p><p>1, At-Will: Riposte Strike</p><p>1, At-Will: Piercing Strike</p><p>1, Encounter: Torturous Strike</p><p>1, Daily: Trick Strike</p><p>2, Utility: Fleeting Ghost</p><p>3, Encounter: Topple Over</p><p>5, Daily: Deep Cut</p><p>6, Utility: Chameleon</p><p>7, Encounter: Imperiling Strike</p><p>9, Daily: Knockout</p><p>10, Utility: Shadow Stride</p><p>13, Encounter: Stunning Strike (replaces Torturous Strike)</p><p>15, Daily: Slaying Strike (replaces Trick Strike)</p><p>16, Utility: Leaping Dodge</p><p>17, Encounter: Dragon Tail Strike (replaces Topple Over)</p><p>19, Daily: Flying Foe (replaces Deep Cut)</p><p></p><p>ITEMS</p><p>Vicious Dagger +5, Summoned Anathema Armor +5, Torc of Power Preservation +4, Flaying Gloves (paragon tier), Phantom Chaussures (paragon tier), Survivor's Belt (paragon tier), Vengeful Dagger +2</p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Iconic Leader</strong></p><p></p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p><p>Iconic Cleric, level 21</p><p>Dwarf, Cleric, Radiant Servant, Demigod</p><p>Build: Devoted Cleric</p><p>Pact Initiate: Pact Initiate (fey pact)</p><p>Divine Spark: Divine Spark Wisdom</p><p>Divine Spark: Divine Spark Charisma</p><p></p><p>FINAL ABILITY SCORES</p><p>Str 13, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 28, Cha 22.</p><p></p><p>Starting Ability Scores</p><p>Str 11, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 14.</p><p></p><p></p><p>AC: 32 Fort: 27 Reflex: 28 Will: 38</p><p>HP: 141 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 37</p><p></p><p>TRAINED SKILLS</p><p>Religion, Heal, Diplomacy, Arcana, Bluff.</p><p></p><p>FEATS</p><p>1: Ritual Caster</p><p>1: Improved Initiative</p><p>2: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)</p><p>4: Dodge Giants</p><p>6: Toughness</p><p>8: Pact Initiate</p><p>10: Adept Power</p><p>11: Combat Anticipation</p><p>12: Devastating Critical (retrained to Epic Resurgence at Level 21)</p><p>14: Dwarven Durability</p><p>16: Lightning Reflexes</p><p>18: Uncanny Dodge</p><p>20: Fleet-Footed</p><p>21: Font of Radiance</p><p></p><p>POWERS</p><p>1, At-Will: Lance of Faith</p><p>1, At-Will: Sacred Flame</p><p>1, Encounter: Divine Glow</p><p>1, Daily: Beacon of Hope</p><p>2, Utility: Bless</p><p>3, Encounter: Daunting Light</p><p>5, Daily: Consecrated Ground</p><p>6, Utility: Bastion of Health</p><p>7, Encounter: Break the Spirit</p><p>9, Daily: Divine Power</p><p>10, Utility: Mass Cure Light Wounds</p><p>13, Encounter: Mantle of Glory (replaces Divine Glow)</p><p>15, Daily: Seal of Warding (replaces Beacon of Hope)</p><p>16, Utility: Hallowed Ground</p><p>17, Encounter: Thunderous Word (replaces Daunting Light)</p><p>19, Daily: Knight of Glory (retrained to Delusions of Loyalty at Adept Power) (replaces Consecrated Ground)</p><p></p><p>ITEMS</p><p>Ritual Book, Magic Holy Symbol +5, Amulet of Resolution +5, Exalted Crysteel Armor +4, Crown of Command (paragon tier)</p><p></p><p>RITUALS</p><p>Gentle Repose</p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Iconic Controller</strong></p><p></p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p><p>Iconic Wizard, level 21</p><p>Human, Wizard, Spellstorm Mage, Archmage</p><p>Arcane Implement Mastery: Orb of Imposition</p><p></p><p>FINAL ABILITY SCORES</p><p>Str 10, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 26, Wis 20, Cha 13.</p><p></p><p>Starting Ability Scores</p><p>Str 8, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 11.</p><p></p><p></p><p>AC: 35 Fort: 29 Reflex: 36 Will: 33</p><p>HP: 102 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 25</p><p></p><p>TRAINED SKILLS</p><p>Diplomacy, Arcana, History, Religion, Insight.</p><p></p><p>FEATS</p><p>1: Ritual Caster</p><p>1: Action Surge</p><p>1: Expanded Spellbook</p><p>2: Jack of All Trades</p><p>4: Armor Proficiency (Leather)</p><p>6: Human Perseverance</p><p>8: Improved Initiative</p><p>10: Burning Blizzard</p><p>11: Danger Sense</p><p>12: Resounding Thunder</p><p>14: Uncanny Dodge</p><p>16: Combat Anticipation</p><p>18: Great Fortitude</p><p>20: Toughness (retrained to Arcane Mastery at Level 21)</p><p>21: Epic Resurgence</p><p></p><p>POWERS</p><p>1, At-Will: Thunderwave</p><p>1, At-Will: Scorching Burst</p><p>1, At-Will: Ray of Frost</p><p>1, Encounter: Burning Hands</p><p>1, Daily: Flaming Sphere</p><p>Spellbook: Freezing Cloud</p><p>Spellbook: Sleep</p><p>2, Utility: Shield</p><p>Spellbook: Feather Fall</p><p>3, Encounter: Color Spray</p><p>5, Daily: Bigby's Icy Grasp</p><p>Spellbook: Web</p><p>Spellbook: Stinking Cloud</p><p>6, Utility: Invisibility</p><p>Spellbook: Dispel Magic</p><p>7, Encounter: Winter's Wrath</p><p>9, Daily: Wall of Fire</p><p>Spellbook: Mordenkainen's Sword</p><p>Spellbook: Ice Storm</p><p>10, Utility: Blur</p><p>Spellbook: Resistance</p><p>13, Encounter: Prismatic Burst (replaces Burning Hands)</p><p>15, Daily: Bigby's Grasping Hands (replaces Bigby's Icy Grasp)</p><p>Spellbook: Prismatic Beams</p><p>Spellbook: Otiluke's Resilient Sphere</p><p>16, Utility: Fly</p><p>Spellbook: Displacement</p><p>17, Encounter: Ice Tomb (replaces Color Spray)</p><p>19, Daily: Evard's Black Tentacles (replaces Wall of Fire)</p><p>Spellbook: Acid Wave</p><p>Spellbook: Cloudkill</p><p></p><p>ITEMS</p><p>Spellbook, Orb of Impenetrable Escape +5, Fireflower Pendant +5, Irrefutable Snakeskin Armor +4, Headband of Insight (paragon tier), Magic Staff +1</p><p>====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ======</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 4761528, member: 5889"] For a while, the boards have been debating the 4e math. I have made the contention many times that you cannot explore the high levels mathematically without a heavy investigation into the interact of powers and effects at those levels. Well...its time to do that. To get started, I am creating an "iconic" party of 1 defender, controller, striker, and leader. I have decided to use 21st level as a good basis. I am only using the core 4 books (PH1, DMG, MM, Adventurer's Vault-yes I consider it a core book) as this represents many of the default assumptions that went into the system. My goal is to personify each of the roles in a way that is fairly optimized, but also makes sense to play. I have created the 4 using the character builder, and before I do a detailed analysis, I submit them to the boards for feedback. The goal is NOT to twink these iconics, the goal is to see if they carry a set of powers, feats, items, and abilities that tend to fit their desired role well. I am not looking for big changes to these characters, mainly tweaks here and there unless I have selected something that absolutely makes no sense. A few notes: For equipment I went with 1 22nd level item, 1 21st, and 1 20th, with 125,000 gp (this is the standard money for 21st level). I chose a brutal scoundrel rogue as I feel that fits the striker role better. I chose an elf for this role, because elves are badass:) For the wizard, I gave him a +1 AC bump because the character builder wouldn't let me put the staff in one hand...which from what I understand is allowed now by the rules. Finally, for the cleric and wizard I didn't record their rituals because it won't affect the analysis, but I took out a chunk of their gold which I assumed would be spent on items. Without further ado: [B]Iconic Defender[/B] ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== Iconic Fighter, level 21 Dragonborn, Fighter, Swordmaster, Demigod Fighter Talents: One-handed Weapon Talent Divine Spark: Divine Spark Strength Divine Spark: Divine Spark Dexterity FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 27, Con 12, Dex 24, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 15. Starting Ability Scores Str 17, Con 10, Dex 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 11. AC: 39 Fort: 35 Reflex: 34 Will: 28 HP: 172 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 46 TRAINED SKILLS Intimidate, Streetwise, Athletics. FEATS 1: Shield Push 2: Enlarged Dragon Breath 4: Toughness 6: Weapon Proficiency (Bastard sword) 8: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade) 10: Blade Opportunist 11: Blood Thirst (retrained to Epic Resurgence at Level 21) 12: Devastating Critical 14: Heavy Blade Opportunity 16: Shield Specialization 18: Armor Specialization (Scale) 20: Iron Will 21: Heavy Blade Mastery POWERS 1, At-Will: Tide of Iron 1, At-Will: Cleave 1, Encounter: Passing Attack 1, Daily: Comeback Strike 2, Utility: Boundless Endurance 3, Encounter: Sweeping Blow 5, Daily: Rain of Steel 6, Utility: Unbreakable 7, Encounter: Come and Get It 9, Daily: Thicket of Blades 10, Utility: Stalwart Guard 13, Encounter: Storm of Blows (replaces Passing Attack) 15, Daily: Unyielding Avalanche (replaces Comeback Strike) 16, Utility: Interposing Shield 17, Encounter: Harrying Assault (replaces Storm of Blows) 19, Daily: Strike of the Watchful Guard (replaces Thicket of Blades) ITEMS Retribution Bastard sword +5, Summoned Nagascale Armor +5, Brooch of Vitality +4, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier), Belt of Vigor (paragon tier), Solitaire (Citrine) (paragon tier), Helm of Battle (heroic tier), Assault Boots (paragon tier), War Ring (paragon tier), Ricochet Shield Heavy Shield (paragon tier) ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== [B]Iconic Striker[/B] ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== Iconic Rogue, level 21 Elf, Rogue, Daggermaster, Deadly Trickster Rogue Tactics: Brutal Scoundrel FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 22, Con 12, Dex 25, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 12. Starting Ability Scores Str 16, Con 10, Dex 17, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 10. AC: 36 Fort: 30 Reflex: 35 Will: 26 HP: 124 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 31 TRAINED SKILLS Stealth, Thievery, Perception, Insight, Acrobatics, Athletics, Nature. FEATS 1: Elven Precision 2: Backstabber 4: Surprise Knockdown 6: Improved Initiative 8: Nimble Blade 10: Weapon Focus (Light Blade) 11: Danger Sense 12: Devastating Critical 14: Two-Weapon Fighting 16: Warrior of the Wild 18: Two-Weapon Defense 20: Agile Athlete 21: Triumphant Attack POWERS 1, At-Will: Riposte Strike 1, At-Will: Piercing Strike 1, Encounter: Torturous Strike 1, Daily: Trick Strike 2, Utility: Fleeting Ghost 3, Encounter: Topple Over 5, Daily: Deep Cut 6, Utility: Chameleon 7, Encounter: Imperiling Strike 9, Daily: Knockout 10, Utility: Shadow Stride 13, Encounter: Stunning Strike (replaces Torturous Strike) 15, Daily: Slaying Strike (replaces Trick Strike) 16, Utility: Leaping Dodge 17, Encounter: Dragon Tail Strike (replaces Topple Over) 19, Daily: Flying Foe (replaces Deep Cut) ITEMS Vicious Dagger +5, Summoned Anathema Armor +5, Torc of Power Preservation +4, Flaying Gloves (paragon tier), Phantom Chaussures (paragon tier), Survivor's Belt (paragon tier), Vengeful Dagger +2 ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== [B]Iconic Leader[/B] ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== Iconic Cleric, level 21 Dwarf, Cleric, Radiant Servant, Demigod Build: Devoted Cleric Pact Initiate: Pact Initiate (fey pact) Divine Spark: Divine Spark Wisdom Divine Spark: Divine Spark Charisma FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 13, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 28, Cha 22. Starting Ability Scores Str 11, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 18, Cha 14. AC: 32 Fort: 27 Reflex: 28 Will: 38 HP: 141 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 37 TRAINED SKILLS Religion, Heal, Diplomacy, Arcana, Bluff. FEATS 1: Ritual Caster 1: Improved Initiative 2: Skill Focus (Diplomacy) 4: Dodge Giants 6: Toughness 8: Pact Initiate 10: Adept Power 11: Combat Anticipation 12: Devastating Critical (retrained to Epic Resurgence at Level 21) 14: Dwarven Durability 16: Lightning Reflexes 18: Uncanny Dodge 20: Fleet-Footed 21: Font of Radiance POWERS 1, At-Will: Lance of Faith 1, At-Will: Sacred Flame 1, Encounter: Divine Glow 1, Daily: Beacon of Hope 2, Utility: Bless 3, Encounter: Daunting Light 5, Daily: Consecrated Ground 6, Utility: Bastion of Health 7, Encounter: Break the Spirit 9, Daily: Divine Power 10, Utility: Mass Cure Light Wounds 13, Encounter: Mantle of Glory (replaces Divine Glow) 15, Daily: Seal of Warding (replaces Beacon of Hope) 16, Utility: Hallowed Ground 17, Encounter: Thunderous Word (replaces Daunting Light) 19, Daily: Knight of Glory (retrained to Delusions of Loyalty at Adept Power) (replaces Consecrated Ground) ITEMS Ritual Book, Magic Holy Symbol +5, Amulet of Resolution +5, Exalted Crysteel Armor +4, Crown of Command (paragon tier) RITUALS Gentle Repose ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== [B]Iconic Controller[/B] ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== Iconic Wizard, level 21 Human, Wizard, Spellstorm Mage, Archmage Arcane Implement Mastery: Orb of Imposition FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 10, Con 12, Dex 12, Int 26, Wis 20, Cha 13. Starting Ability Scores Str 8, Con 10, Dex 10, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 11. AC: 35 Fort: 29 Reflex: 36 Will: 33 HP: 102 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 25 TRAINED SKILLS Diplomacy, Arcana, History, Religion, Insight. FEATS 1: Ritual Caster 1: Action Surge 1: Expanded Spellbook 2: Jack of All Trades 4: Armor Proficiency (Leather) 6: Human Perseverance 8: Improved Initiative 10: Burning Blizzard 11: Danger Sense 12: Resounding Thunder 14: Uncanny Dodge 16: Combat Anticipation 18: Great Fortitude 20: Toughness (retrained to Arcane Mastery at Level 21) 21: Epic Resurgence POWERS 1, At-Will: Thunderwave 1, At-Will: Scorching Burst 1, At-Will: Ray of Frost 1, Encounter: Burning Hands 1, Daily: Flaming Sphere Spellbook: Freezing Cloud Spellbook: Sleep 2, Utility: Shield Spellbook: Feather Fall 3, Encounter: Color Spray 5, Daily: Bigby's Icy Grasp Spellbook: Web Spellbook: Stinking Cloud 6, Utility: Invisibility Spellbook: Dispel Magic 7, Encounter: Winter's Wrath 9, Daily: Wall of Fire Spellbook: Mordenkainen's Sword Spellbook: Ice Storm 10, Utility: Blur Spellbook: Resistance 13, Encounter: Prismatic Burst (replaces Burning Hands) 15, Daily: Bigby's Grasping Hands (replaces Bigby's Icy Grasp) Spellbook: Prismatic Beams Spellbook: Otiluke's Resilient Sphere 16, Utility: Fly Spellbook: Displacement 17, Encounter: Ice Tomb (replaces Color Spray) 19, Daily: Evard's Black Tentacles (replaces Wall of Fire) Spellbook: Acid Wave Spellbook: Cloudkill ITEMS Spellbook, Orb of Impenetrable Escape +5, Fireflower Pendant +5, Irrefutable Snakeskin Armor +4, Headband of Insight (paragon tier), Magic Staff +1 ====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&DI Character Builder ====== [/QUOTE]
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