Pathfinder 1E Confused on Some Character Creation Mechanics

[TabletopAndroid]

Hi,


I'm having some issues understanding some of the core mechanics when creating a character. I feel I've been doing it wrong for weeks. Can someone help me understand some of these mechanics?

• Skills
• Feats

Skills
I understand how skills are used during skill challenges, but my problem is understanding how many you start out with. There's "untrained", "trained", and "trained class skills." If I understand it correctly a level 1 Wizard, for instance, starts out with a total of 16 available skills: appraise, craft, fly, knowledge (all), linguistics, profession, and spellcraft. From that list I can train 2+INT bonus. If I'm using the official PFS character sheet I will mark (x) each one of those 16 skills and then add a +1 to specific skills that totals (2+INT bonus). I guess my confusion is what's the difference between "Trained" and "Trained Class Skill"?


Feats
Next to the class table (for instance, Wizard), it shows that at level 1 I have 0 ark bonus, 0 fort, 0 ref, and +2 will. What's with the "Special" column. Do I get to choose "Arcane bond", an "arcane school", "cantrips", and "scribe scroll" as a special feature? Or do I only get to choose one?


If I'm a Gnome Wizard, how many Feats do I start out with? I see the Feats table 5-1, but I've missed how many I can choose as a level 1 character. I guess I'm confused because humans can choose a bonus Feat at level 1. I don't know if it's referring to Feats in Chapter 5 or that "special" column within the class table.

 

[billd91]

Skills
I understand how skills are used during skill challenges, but my problem is understanding how many you start out with. There's "untrained", "trained", and "trained class skills." If I understand it correctly a level 1 Wizard, for instance, starts out with a total of 16 available skills: appraise, craft, fly, knowledge (all), linguistics, profession, and spellcraft. From that list I can train 2+INT bonus. If I'm using the official PFS character sheet I will mark (x) each one of those 16 skills and then add a +1 to specific skills that totals (2+INT bonus). I guess my confusion is what's the difference between "Trained" and "Trained Class Skill"?

A class skill gives you an extra +3 modifier if you train it. A trained skill that isn't a class skill doesn't get you that bonus. For example, Spellcraft is a class skill for the wizard. If he has an Int bonus of +4 and he trains that skill, his modifier with it (when making skill checks) is 1 (rank invested) + 4 (Int bonus) + 3 (trained class skill bonus) for +8. Pretty respectable for a 1st level character.

If he also invests in his Stealth skill, not a class skill, and he has a Dex bonus of +1, his modifier will be 1 (rank invested) + 1 (Dex bonus) for +2. Quite a bit less than that +8 but then his Dex isn't as impressive as his Int and he doesn't get the +3 trained class skill bonus. If this wizard multiclassed and took his next level as a rogue, that Stealth skill would now count as a class skill and, because he has trained it, he would suddenly get that +3 trained class skill bonus. He doesn't have to spend his rogue skill ranks to get that extra bonus - it just has to be trained and it just has to be on the class skill list for at least one of his classes.

Feats
Next to the class table (for instance, Wizard), it shows that at level 1 I have 0 ark bonus, 0 fort, 0 ref, and +2 will. What's with the "Special" column. Do I get to choose "Arcane bond", an "arcane school", "cantrips", and "scribe scroll" as a special feature? Or do I only get to choose one

You get them all. They're part of your class features as a 1st level wizard. This doesn't mean there won't be choices involved - you get to choose which arcane bond and which arcane school (see the descriptions of those class features for details). But you get ALL of the features.

If I'm a Gnome Wizard, how many Feats do I start out with? I see the Feats table 5-1, but I've missed how many I can choose as a level 1 character. I guess I'm confused because humans can choose a bonus Feat at level 1. I don't know if it's referring to Feats in Chapter 5 or that "special" column within the class table.

You get 1 feat that can be any you qualify for - combat, skill-based, metamatic, whatever you want. You also get Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat for being a 1st level wizard. It appears in the Special column in the class table.

Humans gain a bonus feat at first level, but gnomes don't. It's one of the perks of being human. Gnomes get a bunch of other perks instead.

It helps to keep in mind that there are a few sources of feats. You get one set just for being a character in Pathfinder. You start with one and gain another one every odd character level you attain. So you gain an additional feat in this set at 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.

Classes often grant additional, usually described as bonus feats as well. Fighters gain bonus feats at 1st, 2nd, 4th, and every even level. Wizards start with a bonus feat of Scribe Scroll and gain another every 5th level. When given by a class, the range of feats you can choose from is usually limited as described in the class description. They'll be fairly thematic to the class - fighters get combat feats, wizard item creation and metamagic feats, monks and rangers get feats that contribute to building particularly fighting styles, etc. The feats you gain just for being a PF character (the ones on table 3-1) can be ANY feats you qualify for out of Chapter 5 (and other supplements).

That help?

 

[Empirate]

Class skills in PF provide a +3 bonus to checks made with it, as long as you have put at least one rank into them. But even though this incentivizes choosing class skills, you're not limited to choosing only them for your character. For example, if you're playing a Human Wizard with Int 16, you're starting out with 6 skillpoints, which you can spend on any skill in the game. If you put 1 each into Climb, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (planes), Knowledge (religion), Perception, and Spellcraft, you get skill modifiers of +1, +4, +4, +4, +1, and +4 respectively (plus ability score modifiers), because the Knowledges and Spellcraft are class skills, while Climb and Perception are not.
Since you put no skill rank into e.g. Appraise, you don't get the +3 class skill modifier either, even though it is a class skill for you - you're not trained in it. Appraise is a skill that can be used untrained, but until you put a skill rank into it, you only get your ability score modifier to the d20 roll.

1st level characters choose 1 feat. Humans get a bonus feat on top of that, and your class may give you another bonus feat; Wizard incidentally provides Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 1st level. Your Gnome Wizard starts out with 2 feats: Scribe Scroll plus another one, freely chosen by you. If you played a Human, you would gain 3 feats: Scribe Scroll and 2 feats freely chosen by you.

Arcane Bond, Arcane School, and Cantrips are all gained at 1st level. These are not feats, but class features, and you automatically get them by choosing the Wizard class.

EDIT: well, swordsage'd while typing this up...

 

[TabletopAndroid]

Excellent, that makes so much sense. I appreciate your prompt and detailed answers!

 

[TabletopAndroid]

If you don't mind can you take a look at a character sheet I'm working on. This one is a Half-Elf Rogue/Bard. I see that a racial trait the half-elf has is "multitalented", which is why she's a rogue and a bard. I'm assuming this trait automatically makes her a multi-classed character? I'm still figuring out how to apply this.

In regards to skills/feats she gets "skill focus" as a racial trait (pretty awesome) and I chose "combat reflexes." If I understood it correctly when there's an attack of opportunity instead of getting to attack the enemy once she now gets three turns? That's pretty brutal.

I appreciate any feedback you can give. I'm new here so if this is not the forum to ask for this kind of help please direct me to the proper place.

[SIZE=+1]Kamshi[/SIZE]
Female Half-Elf Rogue/Bard, Level 1, Init +3, HP 8/8, Speed 30 ft
AC 15, Touch 13, Flat-footed 12, Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +0, Base Attack Bonus 0
Short sword (d6, 19-20/x2)
Crossbow, Light (Bolts, 10) (d8, 19-20/x2)
Leather (+2 Armor, +3 Dex)
Abilities Str 12, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 14
Condition None

myth-weavers[dot]com/sheetview.php?sheetid=544643

Lastly; I found Table 3-1 to be super helpful. With your explanation and the "character advancement and level-dependent bonuses" it's all starting to make more sense.

 

[Nagol]

Multitalented doesn't mean the character is mutliclassed, it means the character has more than one Favored Class. A character gets a bonus each time a favored class level is taken.

 

[billd91]

Multitalented does not automatically make a character multiclassed. The way you multiclass in PF is to take another class when you level up. There are no 1st level multiclass characters. Multitalented just enables a half-elf to gain particular benefits out of multiclassing later on. So you can't be a 1st level rogue/bard. You have to be a 1st level rogue or a 1st level bard. Then, when you have enough experience points to gain a level, you could elect to pick up a level in the other class. For example, if you decided on starting as a rogue, at 2nd level you could take a level of bard and be a Rogue 1/Bard 1. Then, at 3rd level, you could level up as either the rogue or bard and be a rogue 2/bard 1 or rogue 1/bard 2.

You're definitely reading combat reflexes wrong. If you have a Dex mod of +3, you don't get to make 3 attacks every time someone provokes an attack of opportunity. Rather, you could respond to 3 separate opportunities within a round. If three opponents tried to push past you to attack an ally to your rear, you'd get to attack each one once. Or if one opponent moved within an area you threatened and then fired a crossbow, you'd be able to attack him twice - once when he moved and once when he fired the crossbow. It's actually fairly rare that this happens, but it can be useful when fighting a bunch of relatively minor opponents if you're well positioned.

So what skill are you going to choose for your skill focus feat?

 

[knottyprof]

Multi-classing in pathfinder is different than say 1st edition AD&D. Characters have character levels and class levels. You can only choose one class level per character level, so
Character level 1 --> Bard 1
Character level 2 --> Rogue 1
Character level 3 --> Bard 2
Character level 4 --> Rogue 2
etc..
This means as your character level goes up you may have a single class of equal level or two (or more) class levels of lesser levels that when added together equal your character level.

Not sure exactly what the mechanic is for the half-elf multi-talented entails, but normally when you start out you declare your favored class and everytime you take that class you gain a small bonus such as an additional hit point or skill point.

Hope this helps

 

[billd91]

Not sure exactly what the mechanic is for the half-elf multi-talented entails, but normally when you start out you declare your favored class and everytime you take that class you gain a small bonus such as an additional hit point or skill point.

Multitalented allows half elves to do this with 2 favored classes rather than 1 favored class.

 

[knottyprof]

Multitalented allows half elves to do this with 2 favored classes rather than 1 favored class.

So for the OP, if you choose Bard and Rogue based on the character in the example you would get the favored class bonus every time you level up choosing either Bard or Rogue.