Confusion, and resisting spells from friendly/hostile sources

[ZYG]

First let me describe the scenario which brought up my question (we're playing with the 3.5 rules).

After a few horrible saving throws, most of the party is under the confusion spell. Some are hacking at enemies, some are hacking at each other, and some are doing nothing. The only party member not effected by confusion is the melee-spellcaster (named V.I.P.). V.I.P. wants to save his own skin, so he casts haste on himself and the rest of the party. Haste allows a saving throw (harmless), and normally the party members would not resist the spell. However, what happens when they're confused? Would they resist the spell? They no longer distinguish between friend and foe, so would they treat any spell from any source (friendly/hostile) the same way?


The lengthy discussion that followed this scenario ended with our DM just giving up and stating "OK, whatever, you're all hasted". However the discussion did bring up a few other questions about saving throws.


1. When a spell is cast on you, do you know if the spell is harmless or not? If it was harmless, you might not resist.

2. Do you have any idea what the spell is doing to you before you make the saving throw?

3. If a charmed/dominated PC or a turncoat NPC is casting a harmfull spell on you, would you get (or attempt) a saving throw? For example, the cleric says he'll give you a cure wounds spell, but instead casts inflict wounds spell.

4. Would a blind/deaf/paralized PC resist a cure spell? Would an unconscious PC resist a cure spell? If so, this would make stabilizing party members much harder.


Thanks in advance.

- Z Y G

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

If you don't have spellcraft you cannot know what spell is cast, but you can decide to roll a saving throw or not
I think you cannot know if the spell is harmless or harmful
In my group if you are unconscious you cannot resist any spell
you only knows a spell is cast when rolls a successful saving throw
I hope that's help you

 

[mikebr99]

First let me describe the scenario which brought up my question (we're playing with the 3.5 rules).

After a few horrible saving throws, most of the party is under the confusion spell. Some are hacking at enemies, some are hacking at each other, and some are doing nothing. The only party member not effected by confusion is the melee-spellcaster (named V.I.P.). V.I.P. wants to save his own skin, so he casts haste on himself and the rest of the party. Haste allows a saving throw (harmless), and normally the party members would not resist the spell. However, what happens when they're confused? Would they resist the spell? They no longer distinguish between friend and foe, so would they treat any spell from any source (friendly/hostile) the same way?

Thanks in advance.

- Z Y G

The ones hacking at enemies or defending themselves from confused party members, would take the haste as normal.

The ones hacking at party members would not take the spell.

The ones doing nothing... 50% would take the spell.

YMMV


Mike

 

[Scion]

In my group if you are unconscious you cannot resist any spell

wow.. now that would be incredibly unfortunate. I am glad that no group I have ever played in plays this way. How do you explain the saving throw on Nightmare?

So far as I know you always get a save unless you consciously say you dont want to get one, although for harmless spells most groups just ignore this (it would just not be nice to have the guy at -9 save against a cure spell..lol).

Still, in the confusion situation. Anyone acting normally gets to choose, those who dont currently know who the enemy is will resist, those who are doing nothing I'd probably give a 50% chance to be able to decide for themselves, and a 50% chance of it being flipped on a coin whether they resist or not (this of course goes way in the favor of the confused people, but I doubt the pc's would complain too much)

 

[Vaxalon]

The Confusion affect ONLY applies to one event; your decision about what you're going to do that round.

It says NOTHING about saves versus spells, or being able to tell whether an incoming spell is friendly or not.

 

[Scion]

which is the point really.

Since you are confused and cant really tell what you are doing, and you have to consciously decide whether or not to resist, then one could easy say that you are confused about what to do.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In my group if you are unconscious you cannot resist any spell

FWIW did you know that the PHB puts it slightly differently? Specifically that an unconscious person is always treated as "willing" (see Teleport description, p292)

What this suggests is that unconcious people "voluntarily" "fail" their saves against spells which are not directly harmful to them - but it doesn't say anything about their ability to make saving throws against harmful effects.