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General Tabletop Discussion
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Consensus about two-weapon fighting?
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<blockquote data-quote="Esker" data-source="post: 7635744" data-attributes="member: 6966824"><p>Because there won't always be 15 in that range; sometimes there will be more and sometimes fewer. If there are more, you're worse off on average than the case you examined, since any rolls after the 5th in that range automatically miss. If there are fewer, you're a bit better off, since the shortfall are more likely to be hits than nat 2s and 1s, but it's not a guarantee. The two cases (>= 15 and <= 15) don't balance out exactly; on average the outcomes that aren't exactly 15 are a bit worse than the outcomes that are exactly 15.</p><p></p><p>The same is true if you use your dice on 2s, but two things differ. The downside is that on rolls when you use a die, you're hitting a bit less often on average than if you held back on a 2. But the upside is that on the rolls when you don't use a die, you've removed 2 from the set of possibilities that miss, so you are hitting more often then. It turns out that the effect of the latter outweighs the effect of the former, and so you're better off spending a die if you roll a 2.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, as it should be, since its only effect is to add damage to an attack (from zero to possibly not zero), whereas the other maneuvers have other effects. Sometimes those other effects will be worth more than the additional damage you get from precision attack. Take lunging attack, for example. In a vacuum it looks bad, since you have to spend the die before you know you hit, and so you only have a chance of adding even the 5.5 damage to that attack. But why would you use lunging attack if you don't need it? The times when you would consider using lunging attack are likely times when your movement isn't enough to close with the enemy (you could use it defensively too, to allow you to move back away after attacking without taking an AoO, but we can't assign a damage value to that). In that case, the difference isn't attack for regular damage vs attack for extra damage; the difference is not be able to attack at all vs attack for extra damage, so the lunge is buying you (dph + 5.5) * to_hit in that circumstance, which could easily be worth more to your daily damage than saving the die for a future precision attack.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Esker, post: 7635744, member: 6966824"] Because there won't always be 15 in that range; sometimes there will be more and sometimes fewer. If there are more, you're worse off on average than the case you examined, since any rolls after the 5th in that range automatically miss. If there are fewer, you're a bit better off, since the shortfall are more likely to be hits than nat 2s and 1s, but it's not a guarantee. The two cases (>= 15 and <= 15) don't balance out exactly; on average the outcomes that aren't exactly 15 are a bit worse than the outcomes that are exactly 15. The same is true if you use your dice on 2s, but two things differ. The downside is that on rolls when you use a die, you're hitting a bit less often on average than if you held back on a 2. But the upside is that on the rolls when you don't use a die, you've removed 2 from the set of possibilities that miss, so you are hitting more often then. It turns out that the effect of the latter outweighs the effect of the former, and so you're better off spending a die if you roll a 2. Yes, as it should be, since its only effect is to add damage to an attack (from zero to possibly not zero), whereas the other maneuvers have other effects. Sometimes those other effects will be worth more than the additional damage you get from precision attack. Take lunging attack, for example. In a vacuum it looks bad, since you have to spend the die before you know you hit, and so you only have a chance of adding even the 5.5 damage to that attack. But why would you use lunging attack if you don't need it? The times when you would consider using lunging attack are likely times when your movement isn't enough to close with the enemy (you could use it defensively too, to allow you to move back away after attacking without taking an AoO, but we can't assign a damage value to that). In that case, the difference isn't attack for regular damage vs attack for extra damage; the difference is not be able to attack at all vs attack for extra damage, so the lunge is buying you (dph + 5.5) * to_hit in that circumstance, which could easily be worth more to your daily damage than saving the die for a future precision attack. [/QUOTE]
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