Consequences of Magic

[Nine Hands]

My gaming group was kicking this idea around a while ago. It would make for a nice d20 product

If I only had the time

 

[Stalker0]

Re: Re: Consequences of Magic

These DMs should either find a new group or play another system then, as opposed to thinking up rules changes just to spite their players.

Considering the amount of buffing most players see in campaigns, I don't think its an isolated incident. Players rely on magic at high levels because its very easy too. Buff spells are usually 2nd or 3rd level, last for hours, and have no sideeffects. Why not use them? Forcing players to think outside the box is a good way to spice up the game again.

But caution, at high levels, often players need magic to fight the big baddies, because sadly a player's normal power just doesn't cut the mustard.

And to keep the thread on target, the corrupt spells in BOVD are a good example of a spell with a price.

 

[Centaur]

Re: Re: Re: Consequences of Magic

But caution, at high levels, often players need magic to fight the big baddies, because sadly a player's normal power just doesn't cut the mustard.

If you use a system of subdual damage based soelly on the spell level, then low level characters would be more affected than high level characters (precentage wise).

Just a thought

 

[jgbrowning]

Re: Re: Re: Consequences of Magic

But caution, at high levels, often players need magic to fight the big baddies, because sadly a player's normal power just doesn't cut the mustard.

actually, you just have the baddies be not as bad. pretty simple, because your not just lowering the PC's power, your lowering the power of the game in general.

joe b.

 

[Centaur]

I've always wondered about summoned monsters - is it moral to summon creatures just to die on your behalf? Do the monsters exist before the spell or are they brought into existence by the magic?

According to some optional rules in the DMG, they do. In those rules, you have a list of specific individual creatures that you summon, and when one is killed in an encounter, he takes 24 hours to reform before he can be summoned again. Of course called creatures are always real and can realy die if killed while in the spell casters service.

Which brings me to a potential Hook. If we can summon creatures to our world to fight for us, why can't it be done the other way. Immagine the look on your players face when you tell him he has been summoned to another world to fight on behalf of what he would consider an outsider. Now he is the outsider!

If he is only summoned, then he is forced to follow the creatures orders and goes back after a few rounds. If killed, it takes him 24 hours to reform. In the mean time, his party is going nuts trying to figure out what is going on.

If called, the player has an opportunity to gain something from the creature in return for his services. Could be a disturbing but lucrative exchange.

Imagine the chaos causes if this happens while the players are about to attack someone or in the middle of a delicate diplomatic situation where the intensions of the other party are "Suspect"

I did this once before years ago. The player was a low level wizard attending a wizards college and was summoned to a world whose primary occupant was a lizard race. The summoner was a teacher at their own version of a wizards college and was doing a demo of "Demon Summoning" to show students how it is done and what the Pale Skinned Demons looked like. Made for quite the shocked look on the players face.

As a DM, I savour the moments when I can surprise the playes with something new and interesting.

 

[kengar]

What if spells and magical effects had consequenses or side effects that manifest whenever the spell is used.

(snip)

Definitly not in the spirit of the D20 Magic system, but opens up a new avenue for DMs who think their players abuse the magic system a little to much.

To be fair, there are d20 magic systems with serious consequences; just not 3e. CoC springs to mind: Cast a spell, take attribute and/or SAN damage. Not to mention SAN loss just for learning the d***ed spell!

 

[Zappo]

One way to think of it is that for most D&D worlds has had magic for a long, long time. The spells in the PHB are all well known, tried-and-true types that have all the rough edges sandeed off and all the bugs worked out. You could, presumably, have side effects upon newly researched spells.

That is my opinion too. The spells have been perfected over time to remove all those side-effects.

In fact, in my campaigns, when you want to research a spell, you decide all of its details including level and do the research. If the spell is too powerful, I'll include a side effect, which you don't know about until you cast the spell for the first time, or simply tone it down. To debug the spell, you have to research it all over again (IIRC, the DMG too specifies that the DM approves the spell only after the research time and expenses have been spent, so I'm not even deviating from canon).

So, I guess some spellcaster somewhere once made a strength boosting spell and made it 1st level. The spell works, but causes addiction and similar problems. So another spellcaster some time later researches a new version which magically adjusts the target's nervous system and self-knowledge at the beginning and end of the spell, effectivelhy removing all side effects. The extra energy required to do this makes the spell 2nd level. This is the version that got lucky and was remembered across centuries.

 

[MensurB]

The magic system is fine as it is, leave it alone! If you force your "house rules" upon your players then they will not like it, just remember to tell the player that plays a spellcaster beforehand. However, I am pretty sure that you will find people that like that idea

 

[The_Gneech]

Which brings me to a potential Hook. If we can summon creatures to our world to fight for us, why can't it be done the other way. Immagine the look on your players face when you tell him he has been summoned to another world to fight on behalf of what he would consider an outsider. Now he is the outsider!

Oh yeah, I'm snaggin' that one!

DM: "The balor commands your 2nd-level rogue to attack the skinny-looking marilith."

Player: "Squeeek?"

Of course, when killed, the rogue simply reappears back with the character party, looking very, very shaken...

-The Gneech

 

[Centaur]

Re: Re: Consequences of Magic

To be fair, there are d20 magic systems with serious consequences; just not 3e. CoC springs to mind: Cast a spell, take attribute and/or SAN damage. Not to mention SAN loss just for learning the d***ed spell!

I was aware of the CoC D20 system. A little more extream than I was leaning towards. It would be an example of the opposite end of the spectrum. Magic in that world was never realy intended for anyone bu the insane cultists that server the outer gods and a few of the elder races.

Good point though. Perhaps a toned down of some of that material could be adapted.