Consequences of playing "EVIL" races

[pemerton]

Huh. I'm chagrined that my post might have come across that way.

I don't think it did. Your point was clear.

 

[pemerton]

Games that label whole races as good or evil are racist. That's what racism means: assigning morals based on categories.

I'd probably put it slightly differently: the notion of "inherently evil races" likes orcs, etc, is a trope that draws on the same intellectual/cultural sources as does racist thinking.

The fact that, in the fiction, it's not morally objectionable racism is neither here nor there. One doesn't judge the nature, value etc of a cultural object by the values that it itself presents or affirms.

 

[DammitVictor]

The fact that, in the fiction, it's not morally objectionable racism is neither here nor there. One doesn't judge the nature, value etc of a cultural object by the values that it itself presents or affirms.

One doesn't, are you sure? Because I sure as hell do judge cultural objects in this fashion-- especially when I am participating in their creation.

 

[Umbran]

Aside from being wrong, that is an opinion as absurd as labeling the earth flat.

Mod Note:

Keep it respectful, or walk away. Those are your options.

But at least now that you've said it, no one can now accuse me of misconstruing you or attributing to you feelings you did not have.

The snide commentary is not helping you here. Please use better judgement.

 

[shawnhcorey]

The fact that, in the fiction, it's not morally objectionable racism is neither here nor there. One doesn't judge the nature, value etc of a cultural object by the values that it itself presents or affirms.

But RPGs are more than cultural objects. They are also tools for creating more cultural objects. As such, they should avoid morally-objectionable content.

 

[DammitVictor]

But RPGs are more than cultural objects. They are also tools for creating more cultural objects. As such, they should avoid morally-objectionable content.

Or, at least, engage with it deliberately and purposefully instead of blindly aping classical works and stumbling backwards into classical ideologies.

 

[Umbran]

But RPGs are more than cultural objects. They are also tools for creating more cultural objects. As such, they should avoid morally-objectionable content.

Responsibility for the content lies with the content creator, not the tool.

There is no culture-wide definition for morally-objectionable content. And attempting to enforce such a standard runs into severe ethical issues. Many will find the act of policing thought in this way to itself be morally objectionable.

To use the reductuio ad absurdum method - a dictionary is a cultural object, and a tool used to create more cultural objects. Do we now eliminate words you find morally objectionable from dictionaries? I don't think so.

 

[shawnhcorey]

Responsibility for the content lies with the content creator, not the tool.

Tools encourage things to be done in certain ways. Yes, tools can be partially responsible.

 

[MGibster]

D&D has it roots in war gaming and I suspect that's a big reason why some races were just inherently evil. The creators weren't really trying to come up with a cohesive world they were just trying to come up with a reason why that elf, dwarf, and human were kicking down doors, killing a bunch of orcs & goblins, and taking the treasure. (Warhammer 40k is in the same boat. The setting was created as window dressing justifying why your Space Marines are beating the hell out of my Space Orks.)

And to complicate things, some of us see the use of inherently evil races in a game as a preference while others see it as a moral choice. Which leads to heated discussions because one side doesn't see what the big deal and gets upset when the other side fumes at what they see as very wrong. I find myself in the camp of the former rather than the latter. I can have just as much fun with a game where orcs are inherently evil as I can with a game where my character pursues relationships with them built on mutual respect and common good.

 

[shawnhcorey]

D&D originated from wargaming but the divisions were law and chaos, not good and evil. IIRC, good & evil were added in in Chainmail which became D&D.