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Message: <blockquote data-quote="vagabundo" data-source="post: 5813352" data-attributes="member: 55864">They can make the first few levels more dangerous without making the PCs fragile. It's all about the balance. I enjoyed 4e's take on 1st level PCs. They had some staying power at first level, but I did kill a few 1st level parties - by accident I must add - when I first started DMing. It is quite easy to do with a swarm of the right kind of bad guys. I'll always remember that unconsciousness wizard getting Thunderwaved to death. A TPK swiftly followed. I also think the 0-level rules for 4e are quite good. I'd love to see a similar system for apprentice level adventurers in 5e</blockquote>