Contingency - what can it do?

[AuraSeer]

Jhyrryl, you seem to have missed the point.

You asked for an example. I gave you a couple, off the top of my head. Nitpicking the limitations of my specific examples is irrelevant, because I could word my triggers more carefully and nitpick right back at you. (Ferinstance, you're right that commune could duplicate the name-list trick, but it would take potentially hundreds of castings and many thousands of XP.)

My point is that under your interpretation, contingency can duplicate every divination spell in the book, from detect magic through identify all the way up through 8th-level discern location. It's basically a divination-only limited wish, but at a lower level and without an XP cost. All that, plus its original (intended) purpose of triggering a defensive spell when needed.

If you think that's balanced for a 6th-level spell, if it works IYC, then more power to you. I was just pointing out that it's easily open to abuse. My own interpretation is intended to avoid that whole b0rken barrel of worms.

 

[rhammer2]

You are correct. It is indeed a case of action-reaction casting. It is important to keep the conditions simple, one of the old examples was releasing a Flameshield(cold) when caught in a Fireball.

IME, both Aura's & Jhyrryl's interp is off (what we're seeing here is both ends of the spectrum). Aura's is too limited by the spellcaster's perceptions and Jhyrryl's is too powerful, the clause too broad. My guess is somewhere between these two positions you'll find the best use of Contingency.

It is best to think of Contingency as an action-reaction pair that relies on a mechanical interpretation rather than based on perceptions. Keep in mind that contingencies stated otherwise can become convulted or too vague and it is completely at the DM's discretion to have the contingency fail.

die_kluge: I believe your player was correct in the use of the spell. If he was attacked by a ghost then the protection from evil would come on "instantly" as per the spell wording. I don't see anything wrong with that. Good use of a spell and not too powerful, just nice sometimes. This seems pretty clear in the wording of the spell: "being 'cast' instantly when the prescribed circumstances occur." Notice the "when" and not "after" or "once".

 

[Jhyrryl]

If D&D were a game that I was programming (and yes, that's what I do for a living), I'd agree that the abusability of contingency's unintended consequences would require providing a ruleset that more absolutely defines its abilities and limitations. But table-top D&D is not a computer game.

Because a D&D group has a full-time arbiter (the DM), it shouldn't be necessary to make the restrictions that you and others have expressed in this thread - which was the point that I was expressing. It's a waste of his/her time if abuses never come up; and it places unnecessary restrictions on the spell that will limit the creativity of your players, and your game as a whole. In my opinion.

But I absolutely recognize that different groups (and different individuals within a group) require different kinds of rulings from their DMs. What I've ruled for my groups may very well not be appropriate for your campaigns, just as I think that your rules would not useful to either of mine.

For me, the most difficult players to deal with are the number crunchers; the ones who have a nack for finding optimal paths through the web of combat-related mechanics. If a given group were entirely composed of these individuals, then they wouldn't be a problem -- I crunch with the best of them. But I need to satisfy players (the majority of my players, in-fact) who want to be entertained with a story, and who want to contribute to that story, rather than win a game.

Because of this, I can do things like give a 5th-level party ring gates "on loan" from the local regeant without worrying too much about the abuses they could find for such items. Likewise, giving a cubic gate to an 11th-level group that I'm currently running has proven to be an excellent deus ex machina for the overall campaign, despite its individual value equalling that of half the party's entire inventory.

So yes, it works in my campaigns. My point was never that the spell couldn't be abused, simply that such abuses should be very easy to mitigate in any given situation.

 

[Jhyrryl]

[IMO] Jhyrryl - you see NO problem with the situation that AuraSeer described, even after he answered your direct question with a home-run-out-of-the-park example?

You don't know when your rules interpretations have been proven wrong.
[/IMO]

I'll recognize that my interpretations are wrong when my players refuse to play my games because those rules suck. But considering that I currently run two games, have a third game in the works and still can't find room for everyone I know who wants to participate, and the DM in the game I play defaults his games to use mine, that's not likely to happen any time soon.

 

[green slime]

As to that finger pointing down a list exercise, it is unlikely that soemone IMC would use the contingency spell in such a fashion.

It is too easy to thwart, as Jhyrryl has pointed out. Is the assassin even using his real name? Is there realy only one assassin? Are they in league with each other, or is the King really impopular?

I really see no problem. The spell wasn't designed for these strange divination manipulations, and players should really spend more time on chasing the facts through other means at their disposal.

The same problem exists for the map example.

It is very easy to say "Oh, but then I word the question differently", but you have to be in a situation where you are 110% certain of your original information. Which is pretty rare, IMO. Most often players are acting on a suspicion. They suspect that the would-be assassin is from the wizard guild, or some such. And you still have no guarantees that the information provided is not sending you on a wild goose chase. Because of your wording. Then, after you have recovered from that wild goose chase, you start on another... And the more complicated you make your wording, the more likely the spell is to fail.

So it is better to just use the spell in the manner for which it was designed.

 

[Tabarnak Smokeblower]

What about this example (its borderline silly):

If someone is planning on assassinating the king, cast a "Silent image" to represent him/her/it

TS

 

[ThirdWizard]

Silent Image can't be cast by the spell. Further, even if it could, you couldn't do that because you determine the effect of the spell when you set the contingency, not contingency spell when the condition is fulfilled.

Contingency
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: At least 10 minutes; see text
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: One day/level (D) or until discharged
You can place another spell upon your person so that it comes into effect under some condition you dictate when casting contingency. The contingency spell and the companion spell are cast at the same time. The 10-minute casting time is the minimum total for both castings; if the companion spell has a casting time longer than 10 minutes, use that instead.
The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).
The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur. If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on. The companion spell occurs based solely on the stated conditions, regardless of whether you want it to.
You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled.
Material Component: That of the companion spell, plus quicksilver and an eyelash of an ogre mage, rakshasa, or similar spell-using creature.
Focus: A statuette of you carved from elephant ivory and decorated with gems (worth at least 1,500 gp). You must carry the focus for the contingency to work.

According to the wording, it occurs when the stipulation is true. There is nothing about the caster's perception in the spell. A houserule might be acceptable to change that, but it is still a houserule, and should be noted as such in this forum especially.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Interesting discussion. Personally, I tend to be more vague about the power of Contingency. If the wizard wants an effect that is of a cause/effect nature, I'll usually allow it. This ranges from a contingent Improved/Greater Invisibility set to activate on a simple spoken phrase (and this mimic a Quickened spell), to a contingent Protection from Evil in the event the wizard is targetted by a Dominate effect. Anything like this works, and I consider Contingency omniscient in this regard. So it can recognize a ghost even of the wizard can't, etc. etc.

On the other hand, if the wizard tries to use the spell in any way which I consider a divination effect, the spell fails, since it is not a divination.