D&D 4E [Continuation 4e] - Proposed new class: Shapeshifter

[Neonchameleon]

The Shapeshifter

Written in google docs for fast editing - and my comments down the side are designers notes. I designed a class because I want to display the design principles I'm working on - and a class is a worked example of how things happen. Comments please?

Edit: Sharing settings fixed

 

[Rampant]

Ok it looks like you've got a lot of modified rules here, but the big problem is that you're all over the place.

You're trying to cover a staggering number of shape-shifter archetypes and not really settling down on what the class is supposed to be.

I'd suggest breaking it up into a couple of themes.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Hmm... Probably something that needs to be fixed. Or at least better explained. Which is part of what I wanted to know, thanks. It almost is broken into themes, with one option outside them. The Brute gets Brute At Wills and Encounter powers, the Doppelganger gets Doppelganger At Wills and Encounter powers. And the versatile shifter gets to mix and match.

 

[Rampant]

Yeah that's probably why I thought of it.

 

[GreyICE]

Is the brute a defender or a striker?

Because he's got an absurd level of HP (6/level really?), Hide armor base, AC that scales off of Con, and can grab and prone opponents. All good. But where does his marking come in? At the moment he's kind of stuck in a weird hybrid land, where he's an insanely tough Striker with better than Defender level resilience that has a fair amount of action denial.

So he's kind of overlapping on the Warden, without really having any of the tools the Warden does. Lots of proning and stuff, but it's almost counterproductive (You knock everyone two squares and prone. Great. So they stand and charge... uh oh).

Really he seems like a bad brawler fighter.

 

[Quickleaf]

The Shapeshifter

Written in google docs for fast editing - and my comments down the side are designers notes. I designed a class because I want to display the design principles I'm working on - and a class is a worked example of how things happen. Comments please?

Edit: Sharing settings fixed

So...Continuation 4e...is this like your homebrewed version of the 4th edition rules? You've renamed "encounter power" to "scene power", and "daily powers" to "heroic limit breaks", renamed "minor actions" to "swift actions", you've changed unit measurements from squares to feet (and reintroduced cones), included a staggered condition, use some kind of base weapon dice system (is that unarmed attacks), and probably more than I'm not listing.

Wow! What the hell is going on? That's going to make it hard to give feedback.

That said, the first thing that popped out me was the lack of any story text at the beginning. IOW, what do the Incredible Hulk, Doppelganger, American Werewolf, and a Garou have in common? What is the hook, besides the obvious?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Is the brute a defender or a striker?

Because he's got an absurd level of HP (6/level really?), Hide armor base, AC that scales off of Con, and can grab and prone opponents. All good. But where does his marking come in? At the moment he's kind of stuck in a weird hybrid land, where he's an insanely tough Striker with better than Defender level resilience that has a fair amount of action denial.

So he's kind of overlapping on the Warden, without really having any of the tools the Warden does. Lots of proning and stuff, but it's almost counterproductive (You knock everyone two squares and prone. Great. So they stand and charge... uh oh).

Really he seems like a bad brawler fighter.

He's intended to be somewhere between the Barbarian and the Brawler Fighter - an off-tank with some ability to dominate people. Partly by battering them around, partly with his at will grab; grab includes the marked condition under my rules (and isn't automatically escapable with forced movement). And he's effectively wielding a +3/2d6 weapon on the damage side (it's 2d6 and he has a choice of fort, ref, or even AC at +2 which is worth an extra +1 to hit).

So...Continuation 4e...is this like your homebrewed version of the 4th edition rules? You've renamed "encounter power" to "scene power", and "daily powers" to "heroic limit breaks", renamed "minor actions" to "swift actions", you've changed unit measurements from squares to feet (and reintroduced cones), included a staggered condition, use some kind of base weapon dice system (is that unarmed attacks), and probably more than I'm not listing.

Wow! What the hell is going on? That's going to make it hard to give feedback.

That said, the first thing that popped out me was the lack of any story text at the beginning. IOW, what do the Incredible Hulk, Doppelganger, American Werewolf, and a Garou have in common? What is the hook, besides the obvious?

More written fluff needed - I'm getting that a lot

Part of the point is to go back to the 3.X SRD and reimplement 4e from there. Using the OGL to do half the work. Cones work in part because I'm defaulting to hex not square (which makes a lot of things so much easier for people to swallow or at least not complain about) and then converting to square on the "don't sweat the small stuff" principle which gives us back our square fireballs.

This means that 15 ft cone on a square grid literally is close blast 3.

Staggered is in the d20 and the pathfinder SRD. The pathfinder writeup is better.

Staggered

A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take free, swift, and immediate actions. A creature with nonlethal damage exactly equal to its current hit points gains the staggered condition.
​

Can anyone say "dazed"? Or at least close enough to work with.

(Swift actions are also in the SRDs, hence the renaming).

The names of encounter and daily powers have changed to reinforce the narrative pacing. The change is cosmetic there. And the base attack dice are something I'm playing with for non-weapon attacks for classes that are consistent. It might turn out to be a shapeshifter only thing - in which case it really needs more fluff.

 

[GreyICE]

So grabbed condition automatically includes Marked... does that mean it automatically overwrites the Defender's mark?

Hmmm.

Well, at least it makes him better at his job. Use an at-will to prone, if they do a stand-charge you can make an OA to grab em and abort their action entirely, that's fair action denial at will.

I'd be tempted to erase the +1 hp/lvl though from being a brute, 5 hp/lvl is a fine place to be, especially for a Con-based class.

 

[The Little Raven]

The change is cosmetic there.

Remember, cosmetics can be the difference between you being attracted to someone and being disgusted by them. In these 4e clones/heartbreakers, there seems to be a lot of "change the terminology just because," which will actually work against you. Even if its cosmetic, a change makes someone less likely to pick it up.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Remember, cosmetics can be the difference between you being attracted to someone and being disgusted by them. In these 4e clones/heartbreakers, there seems to be a lot of "change the terminology just because," which will actually work against you. Even if its cosmetic, a change makes someone less likely to pick it up.

Oh, I know. The cosmetics are something that need to be got right. Which is partly what I was pitching. And I can already see vast improvements to be made both mechanically and cosmetically.