Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

Cleon

Legend
It's also handy to link to the original monster text.

Here's the bit about controlling driders:

I'm not sure that means they should summon driders. It could be interpreted as meaning they can control any driders that are present, like command undead or something. Or maybe it's sort of like how a normal vampire controls its "offspring." Do you really prefer the summoning interpretation?

The very paragraph you quote refers to their ability to "control spiders" which "arrive within 2d10 rounds of summoning". So if one of the controlled creature types arrives when called for, why not the other?

The main difference is that in the original text they have to be in spider form to control spiders and in humanoid form to control driders.

The CC conversion didn't limit their ability command monstrous arachnids ability to "spider form only" though, so it's not like we aren't applying some adaptation to the original ability, and it feels like both the creatures in question would naturally fall under the Children of the Spider Queen power.
 

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Cleon

Legend
It does seem easiest to add a drider entry to Children of the Spider Queen. Maybe just 1?

The problem, as I mentioned in a previous post, is a Drider is CR 7, which is a lot higher than the other creatures on the Children of the Spider Queen summoning list, which are roughly in an Effective Level range of 3 to 5:

d6+1 spider swarms (CR 1 => EL 3-4), 1d4+1 Large Monstrous Spiders (CR 2 => EL 4), 1d3 Large Monstrous Scorpions (CR 3 => EL 4-5?), or a pack of 3d6 Medium Monstrous Spiders (CR 1 => EL 4-5?)

It's possible to use this template to create a Drow Vampire with CR 7, so they can summon a standard Drider who's (on paper) as powerful as they are - although in practice they'd probably be more powerful.

I feel that using a summoning table approach like I suggested in post #659 would be a neat solution to it.

I'm tempted to give them a level/HD based summoning table like we did with the "summon ratkin" ability of the Greater Wererat and Wererat Lord. That way we can have high-level driders summon enormous spiders and multiple driders, which seems appropriate for a powerful character. I'm also thinking we could give them the option of adding the Fiendish template to the Monstrous Spiders - or just go ahead and make them ALL fiendish.

Also, I'm thinking we should wangle it so the Drow Vampire Working draft is post #666 on this thread, just because it seems appropriate.
 

kevin_video

Explorer
Not sure if you guys ever planned on going this far, but Denizens of Dread had the vampires age, and become stronger with the passing of every 100-200 years, increasing their power and CR. Could that become a thing?

I'm on the thought process that the drider thing is the same as Command Undead. I suppose it could be added that after 5 HD, they can also be summoned through Children of the Night.
 

Cleon

Legend
Not sure if you guys ever planned on going this far, but Denizens of Dread had the vampires age, and become stronger with the passing of every 100-200 years, increasing their power and CR. Could that become a thing?

That's likely more effort than we can be bothered to take.

Besides, we've already got a "Greater Vampire" template in the Creature Catalog that fills that niche (e.g. a vampire that's become even more powerful with age).

I'm on the thought process that the drider thing is the same as Command Undead. I suppose it could be added that after 5 HD, they can also be summoned through Children of the Night.

That's not much of a limitation because without at least 5 HD it would never have become a Drow Vampire in the first place.

Like the standard Vampire, the Drow version's Create Spawn ability only creates another Vampire if the victim has 5 or more HD. Those with 4 or less HD become ordinary Vampire Spawn.

Still, it sounds like you're agreeable in principle to have the "Drider Summoning" kick in at a particular level (or HD), so we only need to agree what point that is.

What about having the summoning ability growing stronger with increased level/HD?
 

Cleon

Legend
Drow Vampire Working Draft

Drow Vampire (template)

Out of the corner of your eye, the skin of this exceptionally beautiful dark elf seems to emanate a faint, pearlescent glow. Her wicked smile reveals pearly white fangs.

To be granted the "Kiss of Lolth", as drow refer to vampirism, is one of the highest honors a dark elf can achieve. Drow vampires are viewed with both awe and trepidation by their living kin, who believe undeath unlocks an understanding of the powers that surge through the universe. Such knowledge brings immense power, which the dark elves both crave and respect.

Drow vampires believe themselves the favored of Lolth. As is typical of their matriarchal society, most drow vampires are female.

They occasionally speak with Lolth’s priestesses, but otherwise remain aloof from drow society. Drow vampires are generally reluctant to create progeny, preferring to keep their place in Lolth’s heart as exclusive as possible.

Among the cruelest of the undead, drow vampires delight in causing pain, and particularly enjoy torturing dwarves and drow of different noble factions than their own.

Drow vampires spend years within elaborate underground tombs constructed by drider slaves, who worship them as Lolth's chosen ones. These tombs often serve as temples to Lolth as well as homes for the vampires. The surface of the tombs are often coated with an extremely painful contact poison.

Drow vampires speak any languages they knew in life.

Creating a Drow Vampire
"Drow Vampire" is a template that can be added to any drow (referred to hereafter as the "base creature").

A drow vampire uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Size and Type: The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.

Hit Dice: Increase all current and future Hit Dice to d12s.

Speed: Same as the base creature. If the base creature has a swim speed, the drow vampire retains the ability to swim and is not vulnerable to immersion in running water (see below).

Armor Class: The base creature’s natural armor bonus improves by +6.

Attack: A drow vampire retains all the attacks of the base creature and also gains two claw attacks if it didn’t already have them. If the base creature can use weapons, the vampire retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A drow vampire fighting without weapons uses either a claw attack or its primary natural weapon (if it has any). A drow vampire armed with a weapon uses its claw or a weapon, as it desires.

Full Attack: A drow vampire fighting without weapons uses either its claw attacks (see above) or its natural weapons (if it has any). If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with a claw or other natural weapon as a natural secondary attack.

Damage: Drow vampires have claw attacks. If the base creature does not have this attack form, use the appropriate damage value from the table below according to the vampire’s size. Creatures that have other kinds of natural weapons retain their old damage values or use the appropriate value from the table below, whichever is better.

Size Damage
Fine 1
Diminutive 1d2
Tiny 1d3
Small 1d4
Medium 1d6
Large 1d8
Huge 2d6
Gargantuan 2d8
Colossal 4d6


Special Attacks: A drow vampire retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Saves have a DC of 10 + 1/2 vampire’s HD + vampire’s Cha modifier unless noted otherwise.

Awe (Su): Once a minute, a drow vampire may create an aura that can deeply affect mortals. It does this merely by making some dramatic gesture, such as baring its fangs or letting out a commanding cry. Creatures that can see the drow vampire must succeed on a DC X Will save to avoid the effects. A creature that succeeds on its saving throw becomes immune to that vampire's awe for 24 hours. This awe is a mind-affecting effect that lasts for 2d4 rounds. The save DC is Charisma-based.

A drow vampire can choose either of the following effects each round as a free action while its awe power is in effect:

Daze: Affected beings just stare at the drow vampire in fascination. Awed creatures may defend themselves normally, but can take no actions. If a creature is attacked physically, it will recover in the following round.

Fright: Affected beings become shaken and suffer a –2 morale penalty on attack rolls, saves, and checks. The merest glance or gesture from the drow vampire makes them frightened, and they flee as quickly as they can, although they can choose the path of their flight.

Blood Drain (Ex): Any living creature struck by a drow vampire's natural weapons suffers 1d3 points of Constitution Drain (or 1d6 Con drain with its fangs). To drain blood with its fangs, a drow vampire must hit with a bite attack (such as that possessed by its Alternative Form of a spider), or make a successful grapple check (in which case it drains 1d6 Con for every round it can maintain a pin). For each point of Constitution drained, the drow vampire gains 2 temporary hit points.

Children of the Spider Queen (Su): Drow vampires command the monstrous arachnids of the world and once per day can call forth 1 drider, 1d6+1 spider swarms, 1d4+1 Large Monstrous Spiders, 1d3 Large Monstrous Scorpions, or a pack of 3d6 Medium Monstrous Spiders as a standard action. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this power might summon other creatures of similar power.) These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the vampire for up to 1 hour.

Create Spawn (Su): A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a drow vampire’s Con drain rises as a vampire spawn (see the Vampire Spawn entry) 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. If the victim is a drow elf with 8 or more HD they return as a drow vampire.

In all cases, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

Special Qualities: A drow vampire retains all the special qualities of the base creature and gains those described below.

Alternate Form (Su): A drow vampire can assume the shape of a monstrous spider of Tiny to Large size as a standard action. While in its alternate form, the drow vampire loses its natural claw attacks and dominate ability, but it gains the natural weapons and extraordinary special attacks of its new form. It can remain in that form until it assumes another or until the next sunrise. (If the base creature is not terrestrial, this power might allow other forms.)

Damage Reduction (Su): A drow vampire has damage reduction 10/silver and magic. A drow vampire’s natural weapons are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Fast Healing (Ex): A drow vampire heals 5 points of damage each round so long as it has at least 1 hit point. If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can travel up to nine miles in 2 hours.) Any additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest in its coffin, a vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round.

Resistances (Ex): A drow vampire has resistance to cold 10 and electricity 10.

Spell-Like Abilities: Drow vampires can use the following spell-like abilities once per day: dancing lights, darkness, deeper darkness, detect magic, dispel magic, faerie fire, levitate, suggestion. Caster level equals the drow vampire’s class levels.

Spider Climb (Ex): A drow vampire can climb sheer surfaces as though with a spider climb spell.

Turn Resistance (Ex): A drow vampire has +4 turn resistance.

Venomous Gaseous Form (Su): As a standard action, a drow vampire can assume gaseous form at will as the spell (caster level 5th), but it can remain gaseous indefinitely and has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability. Any creature that enters the drow vampire's space is exposed to drow vampire poison (see below).

Drow Vampire Poison (Ex): inhaled, Fortitude save negates, initial and secondary damage 1d4 Con. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Voice of the Underdark (Su): A drow vampire can communicate with any animal or vermin native to subterranean environments, as if using a speak with animals spell. Even mindless creatures such as monstrous spiders can interpret its commands.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +4. As an undead creature, a drow vampire has no Constitution score.

Skills: Drow vampires have a +8 racial bonus on Bluff, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, and Spot checks. Otherwise same as the base creature.

Feats: Drow vampires gain Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, and Lightning Reflexes, assuming the base creature meets the prerequisites and doesn’t already have these feats.

Environment: Any, usually same as base creature.
Organization: Solitary, pair, gang (3–5), or troupe (1–2 plus 2–5 vampire spawn).
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature + 2.
Treasure: Double standard.
Alignment: Always evil (any).
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +8.

Drow Vampire Weaknesses
For all their power, drow vampires have a number of weaknesses.

Repelling a Vampire: Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don’t harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action.

Vampires are also unable to cross running water, although they can be carried over it while resting in their coffins or aboard a ship.

They are utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so. They may freely enter public places, since these are by definition open to all.

Slaying a Vampire: Reducing a drow vampire’s hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn’t always destroy it (see the note on fast healing). However, certain attacks can slay vampires.

Exposing any drow vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action and is destroyed utterly in the next round if it cannot escape. Similarly, immersing a vampire in running water robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion.

Driving a rock salt stake through a drow vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the body is destroyed. A popular tactic is to cut off the creature’s head and fill its mouth with holy wafers (or their equivalent).

Sample Drow Vampire
The following sample creature has gained the drow vampire template.

Drow Vampire, 2nd-Level Rogue/5th-level Ranger/3rd-level Shadowdancer
Medium Undead (Augmented Humanoid [Elf])
Hit Dice: 10d12 (65 hp)
Initiative: +9
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 26 (+5 Dex, +6 natural, +5 +1 mithral shirt), touch 15, flat-footed 21
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+13
Attack: Claw +13 melee (1d6+5) or +1 elfbane adamantine shortsword +15 (+17 vs. elves) melee (1d6+6/17-20 or 1d6+8/17-20 plus 2d6 damage vs. elves) or composite shortbow (+2 Str bonus) +13 ranged (1d6+2/x3)
Full Attack: 2 claws +13 melee (1d6+5) or +1 elfbane adamantine shortsword +13/+8 (+15/+10 vs. elves) melee (1d6+6/17-20 or 1d6+8/17-20 plus 2d6 damage vs. elves) and +1 vicious shortsword +12 melee (1d6+3/17-20 plus 2d6 to victim and 1d6 to wielder) or composite shortbow (+2 Str bonus) +11/+6 ranged (1d6+2/x3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Awe (DC 18*), blood drain, children of the Spider Queen, combat style (two-weapon fighting), create spawn, favored enemies (2), poison, shadow illusion, sneak attack +1d6, spell-like abilities, summon shadow
Special Qualities: Alternate form, animal companion, damage reduction 10/silver and magic, drow traits, evasion, fast healing 5, hide in plain sight, resistance to cold 10 and electricity 10, spell resistance 12, spider climb, trapfinding, +4 turn resistance, uncanny dodge, venomous gaseous form (DC 18*), voice of the underdark, wild empathy
Saves: Fort +6*, Ref +15*, Will +4*
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 20, Con -, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 14
Skills: Balance +7, Bluff +16*, Diplomacy +7*, Disguise +3 (+5 acting)*, Hide +26, Intimidate +5*, Jump +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Listen +22, Move Silently +26, Perform +8*, Search +15, Sense Motive +16, Sleight of Hand +12, Spot +25, Survival +9 (+11 following tracks, +11 underground), Tumble +15, Use Magic Device +8*
Feats: Alertness (B), Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Endurance (B), Improved Critical (short sword), Improved Initiative (B), Lightning Reflexes (B), Mobility, Track (B), Two-Weapon Fighting (B)
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary, pair, gang (3–5), or troupe (1–2 plus 2–5 vampire spawn)
Challenge Rating: 12
Treasure: Double standard
Alignment: Usually neutral evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4
*Modified by magic items.

Possessions: +1 elfbane adamantine shortsword, +1 vicious shortsword, +1 mithral shirt, +1 cloak of resistance, circlet of persuasion and 80 gp.

In Ravenloft
The drow vampires of the Lands of Dread differ in some respects from those described above. Use the following rules. Any abilities or statistics that are not covered are the same as the standard drow vampire template.

Attack: A drow vampire retains all the attacks of the base creature and also gains a dread touch attack (see special attacks). If the base creature can use weapons, the vampire retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A drow vampire fighting without weapons uses either a dread touch attack or its primary natural weapon (if it has any). A drow vampire armed with a weapon uses its dread touch or a weapon, as it desires.

Full Attack: A drow vampire fighting without weapons uses either its dread touch attack (see special attacks) or its natural weapons (if it has any). If armed with a weapon, it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with its dread touch or other natural weapon as a natural secondary attack.

Special Attacks: Remove the basic drow vampire's Blood Drain attack and replace it with the Dread Touch attack.

Dread Touch (Ex): A drow vampire can drain the blood and vital fluids from a living creature, dealing 1d6 points of Constitution damage plus 1 point of Constitution drain. This requires a successful touch attack that leaves a bloody welt upon the victim's skin. A drow vampire can also apply its dread touch by making a successful grapple check. This normally deals 1d6 Con damage plus 1 Con drain, but if the grappling drow vampire succeeds in pinning its opponent the dread touch deals 1d6+1 Con drain instead. A pinned opponent continues to take 1d6+1 Con drain each round the pin is maintained.

Alternatively, a drow vampire can inflict its dread touch by hitting with a bite attack (such as that possessed by its Alternative Form of a spider), which does the damage of its bite attack plus 1d6 Con damage and 1 Con drain.

A drow vampire can only use its dread touch once per round whichever method of attack it employs.

The drow vampire gains 2 temporary hit points for every point of Constitution drain it inflicts with a dread touch attack.

Constitution drain caused by dread touch is hard to heal. A character attempting to cast any spell to heal the Con drain must succeed on a DC 20 caster level check or the spell has no effect on the drained ability. The curse only affects the dread touch's Con drain, so any Constitution damage a victim suffers from a dread touch can be healed normally. To eliminate this curse, the effect must be broken with break enchantment or remove curse (requiring a DC 20 caster level check for either spell) or heal (no CL check required), after which a caster level check is no longer necessary to magically cure the Con drain.

Drow Vampire Weaknesses
Drow vampires have a number of weaknesses.

Repelling a Drow Vampire
Drow vampires cannot tolerate salt and are unable to cross an unbroken line of salt. Similarly, they recoil from a strongly presented lump of pure salt. To repulse a drow vampire, a lump of salt must weigh at least one ounce and either be a single piece of natural rock salt (costs 1 sp) or a piece of salt that has been blessed in a temple (costs 1 gp and can be used by a cleric or paladin to turn drow vampires). These things don’t harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from the creature holding the salt and cannot touch or make melee attacks against that creature for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action.

Slaying a Drow Vampire
Exposure to direct sunlight immediately destroys a drow vampire; direct moonlight or indirect daylight prevents the vampire from fast healing and does 2d6 damage per round; indirect moonlight prevents fast healing and does 1d4 damage per round; starlight prevents the vampire from fast healing but does no damage. Illumination by any spell with the light descriptor has the same effect on a drow vampire as moonlight (for spells of 3rd level or above like daylight) or indirect moonlight (for spells of 2nd level or lower, such as continual flame or light).

Immersing a drow vampire in a waterfall robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion. Water drawn directly from a waterfall and splashed at the vampire has the same effect as holy water. Waterfall water loses its harmful properties toward drow vampires as soon as it stops falling.

Driving a rock salt stake through a drow vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the body is destroyed. A popular tactic is to bind the creature's body with silver thread and then burn it to ash.

Originally appeared in Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium Appendix III: Creatures of Darkness (1994).
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
We've done some other monsters (templates I think) with various stages or "levels" of vampires. I'm not sure I'd put that sort of aging in these other than perhaps as flavor text.

To keep the changes to the minimum, I think adding drider summoning for drow vampires above X HD to Children of the Spider Queen is easiest.


EDIT: Cleon and I cross-posted. Anyway, target CR for allowing drider summoning should be probably 8 to 10, whatever HD that corresponds to.
 

kevin_video

Explorer
Besides, we've already got a "Greater Vampire" template in the Creature Catalog that fills that niche (e.g. a vampire that's become even more powerful with age).
Would love a link to that. I bring it up because I'm in the middle of converting a 2e adventure, and in it, the drow vampire is old. Looking for info brought me to Denizens, which eventually brought me here to you guys. The two mature dwarves have an upgraded template in Denizens so that's taken care of for me. A "greater vampire" might suit my needs fine.

That's not much of a limitation because without at least 5 HD it would never have become a Drow Vampire in the first place.

Like the standard Vampire, the Drow version's Create Spawn ability only creates another Vampire if the victim has 5 or more HD. Those with 4 or less HD become ordinary Vampire Spawn.

Still, it sounds like you're agreeable in principle to have the "Drider Summoning" kick in at a particular level (or HD), so we only need to agree what point that is.

What about having the summoning ability growing stronger with increased level/HD?
Only having 1 drider come 2d6 rounds later, which is a CR 7, isn't that big of a deal. If you look at how CR and EL works, a drow vampire right now is usually going to be about a CR 7 (5 HD/CR 5 + 2 CR) and the standard CR 5 summon, which is a total of EL 6. A single driver makes it EL 7. That's it. It doesn't need to be more powerful as we never see the other summons increasing in power. If the encounter level is that big of an issue, just have it take 3d6 rounds instead of 2d6.
 

Cleon

Legend
Would love a link to that. I bring it up because I'm in the middle of converting a 2e adventure, and in it, the drow vampire is old. Looking for info brought me to Denizens, which eventually brought me here to you guys. The two mature dwarves have an upgraded template in Denizens so that's taken care of for me. A "greater vampire" might suit my needs fine.

The templates are in the Creature Catalog new 3.5 conversions thread somewhere.

Ah, here they are - there's six of them, starting with the Vampire Lord.

Hmm, reading them again the Imagine Magazine version of the greater vampire has a lot of special abilities based on being disgusting-and-rotting that don't seem "right" for some kinds of vampires.

Maybe some other Vampire Lord advanced template would suit you better. Like the Denizens of Dread approach, which basically just increases some racial bonuses.

Only having 1 drider come 2d6 rounds later, which is a CR 7, isn't that big of a deal. If you look at how CR and EL works, a drow vampire right now is usually going to be about a CR 7 (5 HD/CR 5 + 2 CR) and the standard CR 5 summon, which is a total of EL 6. A single driver makes it EL 7. That's it. It doesn't need to be more powerful as we never see the other summons increasing in power. If the encounter level is that big of an issue, just have it take 3d6 rounds instead of 2d6.

No, two CR 7 monsters are an EL 9 encounter, not EL 5. At least according to the table on page 49 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.

Oh, but all is not lost. It seems I misremembered the table with my earlier guesstimates for the "spider packs". For some reason I was thinking it was +1 EL per doubling of the number when in fact it is +2.

The problem, as I mentioned in a previous post, is a Drider is CR 7, which is a lot higher than the other creatures on the Children of the Spider Queen summoning list, which are roughly in an Effective Level range of 3 to 5:

d6+1 spider swarms (CR 1 => EL 3-4), 1d4+1 Large Monstrous Spiders (CR 2 => EL 4), 1d3 Large Monstrous Scorpions (CR 3 => EL 4-5?), or a pack of 3d6 Medium Monstrous Spiders (CR 1 => EL 4-5?)

According to the DMG, it's actually:

d6+1 spider swarms (CR 1 => EL 2-6), 1d4+1 Large Monstrous Spiders (CR 2 => EL 2-7), 1d3 Large Monstrous Scorpions (CR 3 => EL 3-6), or a pack of 3d6 Medium Monstrous Spiders (CR 1 => EL 3-9?)

Which actually does overlap with the EL 7 of a single Drider.

Come to think of it, that makes a lot more sense than those earlier numbers. Five Large Spiders or over a dozen Monstrous Spiders are quite a nasty encounter.
 

kevin_video

Explorer
No, two CR 7 monsters are an EL 9 encounter, not EL 5. At least according to the table on page 49 of the Dungeon Master's Guide.

Oh, but all is not lost. It seems I misremembered the table with my earlier guesstimates for the "spider packs". For some reason I was thinking it was +1 EL per doubling of the number when in fact it is +2.
Remind me to never respond to a message like this again with my phone. It's riddles with autocorrect and wrong numbers. Wow.
 

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