Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[kevin_video]

So I did a little tweaking on the template to make it as accurate as possible to the original version. As well, I added the aging tables from Denizens to give it a little mor Let me know what you guys think.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B40cI_sKPOVNbElSLVdua01XNDg/view?usp=sharing

 

[freyar]

"Strongly presented" salt just means you hold it out at them in a firm way. I'd be fine with including that (and the rest of it).

I can't get to that google doc. Is it public?

 

[Cleon]

"Strongly presented" salt just means you hold it out at them in a firm way. I'd be fine with including that (and the rest of it).

Quite, it's no different from holding out a mirror or a bunch of garlic to repel a standard vampire.

Should we specify what form the salt needs to take? It'd seem rather undramatic to have it repulsed by a pinch of table salt, so I'm thinking maybe it takes sizeable lump of rock salt - maybe one that weighs at least a pound? - for a drow vampire to recoil from salt that's "strongly presented".

I can't get to that google doc. Is it public?

I can't see it either, but that's because my browser's anti-snooping and anti-cookie plugins are disagreeing with Google - and I'm not blaming them, frankly.

Why don't you post just the Vampiric Weakness bit on this thread, Kevin_Video.

It'll also make it easier to quote the bits under discussion if it's on Enworld already.

 

[kevin_video]

Tried a different link. Let me know if that works. I'll repost it here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B40cI_sKPOVNbElSLVdua01XNDg/view?usp=sharing

I did up the entire drow vampire. One of the main things I changed was the claws to slam, and bite drain. It doesn't have claws. I've read the write-up, and I've read a couple of adventures with drow vampires. They just have a dread touch that drains its victim's fluids.

 

[Cleon]

Tried a different link. Let me know if that works. I'll repost it here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B40cI_sKPOVNbElSLVdua01XNDg/view?usp=sharing

Yes, I can view that OK.

I did up the entire drow vampire. One of the main things I changed was the claws to slam, and bite drain. It doesn't have claws. I've read the write-up, and I've read a couple of adventures with drow vampires. They just have a dread touch that drains its victim's fluids.

Attacks that drain hit points in AD&D are normally translated into doing Ability Damage in third edition, or Ability Drain if the damage is permanent, so keeping the current Blood Drain is far more in keeping with the 3E ruleset.

You'd need a good argument to change it to permanent hit point damage from the 3E standard of ability drain.

Also, permanent damage of 1 hit point is a lot weedier than the Blood Drain the drow vampire's currently got - on average it does 2 Con damage, which means the victim loses 1 hit point per hit dice and has their Fort save drop by 1. Even in AD&D terms it was a weaksauce attack compared to a regular vampire's ability to drain 2 energy levels per blow.

From what I remember from when we did that conversion, we basically gave it two claw attacks to give it something distinct from a regular vampire and to represent the "1d4+4/1d4+4" in its damage/attack line.

It's quite likely they meant this to be the creature's shortsword and dagger, but if so they mucked it up - shortswords do 1d6 damage, and according to the combat entry both its weapons are +2, so in AD&D terms its weapons should have a damage/attack of "1d6+6/1d4+6".

Besides, if we are going to change the drow vampire's natural attack from a pair of claws (which I'd be happy not to bother with if Freyar doesn't want to change it), I'd rather make it a touch attack that does ability drain rather than a slam.

After all, the AD&D drow vampire does call it a "dread touch". Furthermore, a regular AD&D vampire gets to add the +4 damage bonus of its 18/76 strength to the 1d6+4 damage caused by its energy-draining attack's "crushing blows". In contrast, the AD&D drow vampire doesn't get its strength bonus to its fluid-draining touch, which merely does 1d6+1 damage (1 point of "permanent drain" on top of 1d6 "fluid draining").

bite drain.

I see little reason to remove the bite attack drain. Real world spiders suck fluids out of their victims with their fangs, so what's more appropriate than having a vampire giant spider do so? Also, draining blood (or "fluids", if you prefer) from a grappled/embraced opponent is a standard ability of Vampires in both 2E and 3E Dungeons and Dragons, and I'd say drow vampires ought to be able to do so too. The MC entry certainly doesn't say they can't.

 

[kevin_video]

Attacks that drain hit points in AD&D are normally translated into doing Ability Damage in third edition, or Ability Drain if the damage is permanent, so keeping the current Blood Drain is far more in keeping with the 3E ruleset.

You'd need a good argument to change it to permanent hit point damage from the 3E standard of ability drain.

Also, permanent damage of 1 hit point is a lot weedier than the Blood Drain the drow vampire's currently got - on average it does 2 Con damage, which means the victim loses 1 hit point per hit dice and has their Fort save drop by 1. Even in AD&D terms it was a weaksauce attack compared to a regular vampire's ability to drain 2 energy levels per blow.

Should probably ignore the standard as this is anything but. The dwarven vampire does STR damage and the elf does CHA, and this is directly from Denizens, and this is from their slams. The elf doesn't have blood drain or fangs, and drow are dark elves, so this makes sense. Dwarves, gnomes, and human vampires have this, but not elves. The other variants either gave you a disease or you had to make a Will save to not be controlled. The drow doing CON makes sense. If blood drain is linked specifically to the spider form, that makes sense.

From what I remember from when we did that conversion, we basically gave it two claw attacks to give it something distinct from a regular vampire and to represent the "1d4+4/1d4+4" in its damage/attack line.

It's quite likely they meant this to be the creature's shortsword and dagger, but if so they mucked it up - shortswords do 1d6 damage, and according to the combat entry both its weapons are +2, so in AD&D terms its weapons should have a damage/attack of "1d6+6/1d4+6".

This is exactly right. I agree that they messed up. But yes, that's supposed to be their short sword and dagger. It's the same write up in the adventures. In one, the vampire has a dagger of wounding and a +1 adamantine short sword.

After all, the AD&D drow vampire does call it a "dread touch". Furthermore, a regular AD&D vampire gets to add the +4 damage bonus of its 18/76 strength to the 1d6+4 damage caused by its energy-draining attack's "crushing blows". In contrast, the AD&D drow vampire doesn't get its strength bonus to its fluid-draining touch, which merely does 1d6+1 damage (1 point of "permanent drain" on top of 1d6 "fluid draining").

Could make it do 1d6+X damage which it heals back, and also 1d3 CON on top of that.

I see little reason to remove the bite attack drain. Real world spiders suck fluids out of their victims with their fangs, so what's more appropriate than having a vampire giant spider do so? Also, draining blood (or "fluids", if you prefer) from a grappled/embraced opponent is a standard ability of Vampires in both 2E and 3E Dungeons and Dragons, and I'd say drow vampires ought to be able to do so too. The MC entry certainly doesn't say they can't.

As I mentioned above, seeing it be linked specifically to the spider form is fine. The humanoid, not so much. I looked into the "fluids" of the drow vampire draining. It's not just blood that they drain. Their touch is the equivalent to a desiccating touch. It's blood AND water that they take.
And while it doesn't say that drow can't, it does say that elves can't. I like that they're different. They're the only ones not cursed. It's a right of passage by their deity. It's a blessing for them, but only if they take the form of their god. That's cool, and specific.

 

[freyar]

I can't say I'm in favor of making a lot of wholesale changes to this. I'd rather just stick to changing the few issues we identified previously, like the specific weaknesses.

 

[kevin_video]

I can't say I'm in favor of making a lot of wholesale changes to this. I'd rather just stick to changing the few issues we identified previously, like the specific weaknesses.

That's fine. We can both have our own versions.

 

[kevin_video]

Updated it again. It now does 1 CON drain with each slam, and heals hp equal to the amount of slam damage dealt. Also increased the turning resistance per age category.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B40cI_sKPOVNdzBmQko5bzJTLUU/view?usp=sharing

 

[Cleon]

The elf doesn't have blood drain or fangs, and drow are dark elves, so this makes sense.

Erm, the Drow Vampire has fangs in its Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium illustration, which is just as much evidence for fangs as standard AD&D Vampires have in both their 2E Monstrous Compendium and 1E Monster Manual entries - none of which mention fangs or long canines in the text, but show them in the illustration. In fact, it's more evidence for fangs than the 2E Monstrous Manual proffers, since the Vampires illustrated in that book have no visible fangs!