Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[freyar]

I'm ok with dropping the Con a bit (though +5 seems a pretty high addition to HD), but I prefer Int toward the higher range given their general knowledge (which is Int, not Wis based). And I like the higher Cha for the SLAs, too. How about Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 19?

 

[demiurge1138]

I like the inflated mental stats and favor only a small drop to Con, if any.

 

[Shade]

I'd rather not drop either.

Their Con is on par with (or slightly below) other 10 HD outsiders, such as monadic devas, osyluths, and vrocks. The "+5" in the HD line was quite a big boost in 1e.

Also, their Int of Genius to supra-genius rivaled only the greatest of dragons, archdevils, etc., in 1e, so the scores are probably a bit understated, actually. These are knowledge-focused monsters, so mental stats should be their strong suit.

 

[freyar]

Nicely put. Let's go back to the originally proposed stats, then.

 

[Shade]

No natural, I think, but I could go for a deflection bonus to AC.

Agreed to knowledgable and to an unearthly grace-type ability. Considering their affinity for force effects, giving them mage armor wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Does anyone see a problem with simply giving them unearthly grace (adds Cha bonus to saves and as deflection bonus to AC)?

I like the mage armor idea as well. 3/day? That puts them at AC 20, at least 4 points shy of the other outsiders we compared them to earlier. Maybe add shield 3/day as well?

 

[Cleon]

Does anyone see a problem with simply giving them unearthly grace (adds Cha bonus to saves and as deflection bonus to AC)?

I like the mage armor idea as well. 3/day? That puts them at AC 20, at least 4 points shy of the other outsiders we compared them to earlier. Maybe add shield 3/day as well?

I don't see anything suggesting such extraordinarily good saves in the original. I was thinking just Wis bonus to AC like a monk, not Cha.

 

[demiurge1138]

The monk bonus to AC is a nice suggestion--I like it!

I also think that just 3/day mage armor is sufficient.

 

[Cleon]

The monk bonus to AC is a nice suggestion--I like it!

Ta.

I also think that just 3/day mage armor is sufficient.

Mage armour's OK by me.

So, what AC have we got so far? +2 Dex, +5 Wis, +4 mage armour adds up to AC21. If we want it to be near a "typical" 10 HD Outsider it looks like it needs nudging up a bit more.

 

[Shade]

Updated.

Other than adding shield as a SLA, I could see granting them an insight bonus. However, that is usually based off Wis modifier, so combined with the monk AC bonus, it would be "double-dipping."

 

[demiurge1138]

OK, you've convinced me to shield. And their caster level is high enough that they can take Quicken for it as a feat!