Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[Cleon]

Oh right, can't keep up with all this stuff over so long. A flat Heal DC and 1d2 Con per wart works for me.

Updating Worry-Wart Working Draft.

Wouldn't that objection apply to all symbionts, though?

Most 3E symbionts are distinct discrete organisms that replace or augment a body part (arms, wing, eye etc.) and have functions that mimic a magical item (a claw that acts like a spiked gauntlet with an x/day SLA, for example). The worry-wart is a lot more dispersed through the host's body than a standard symbiont.

There may be symbionts that I don't think should be targetable like an external magical item but they're not standard model Symbionts.

Hmm… if we do use the modified Symbiont Traits perhaps we should rename the SQ to, say, "Symbiotic Network Traits"?

And the worry wart may be annoying but useful anyway.

Cha 7 sounds more appropriate.

Updating Worry-Wart Working Draft.

 

[freyar]

Well, I don't necessarily mind getting rid of the magi-item-like damage on an auto-failed save, but I do think there should be some way to damage the worry-wart. Maybe certain spells (death effects?) affect both or something? Maybe you can target the worry-wart with some spells.

 

[Cleon]

Well, I don't necessarily mind getting rid of the magi-item-like damage on an auto-failed save, but I do think there should be some way to damage the worry-wart. Maybe certain spells (death effects?) affect both or something? Maybe you can target the worry-wart with some spells.

We've got ways to remove/damage the network described in the Infestation ability so we can just include a reference.

i.e. "A symbiont never takes damage from attacks directed at the host. A worry-wart symbiont can be damaged by the methods described in the Infestation special ability (see above). A symbiont uses its host's base saving throw bonuses if they are better than its own."

We could add to the methods if you like.

Having certain creature-targeting spells (such as your suggested death effects or poison, disease, ability damage, energy drain etc.) simply affect both might work but has an obvious problem. The Worry-Wart is likely to have a lot lower Hit Dice, hit points and ability scores than a PC/NPC so is almost bound to die first with little risk to the host, making it an easy removal option.

Maybe allow surgery to remove a completed network just with a very high Heal DC, or allow certain creature-targeting spells attack only the symbiont if the caster succeeds at the same very high Heal DC, otherwise they just hit the host or simply fail?

 

[freyar]

The removal methods in Infestation don't really seem like "damaging" methods. But the worry wart has very few hp. Maybe just treating them as magic items for natural 1s on a save is enough.

 

[Cleon]

The removal methods in Infestation don't really seem like "damaging" methods. But the worry wart has very few hp. Maybe just treating them as magic items for natural 1s on a save is enough.

That doesn't address my previous objection:

I think we should remove this section:

A symbiont never takes damage from attacks directed at the host. Like a worn magic item, a symbiont is usually unaffected by spells that damage the host, but if the host rolls a 1 on its saving throw, the symbiont is one of the "items" that can be affected by the spell. A symbiont uses its host's base saving throw bonuses if they are better than its own.

Since if we left it in it'd provide a simple method of removing the worry-wart. Just cast resist energy (fire) on the host (since "Spells targeted on the host by another spellcaster do not affect the symbiont") and then spam burning hands at them until the host rolls a 1 on their reflex save and the worry-wart is burned away by the fire damage.

I just think it's simpler if it's impossible to target the worry-wart's once it merges with a host, since it's network is so thoroughly spread throughout the host.

My preference would be to refer to the "Completed network removal" section of infestation, i.e.:

A worry-wart symbiont never takes damage from attacks directed at the host. The symbiotic network can be removed by the methods described in its Infestation special attack (see above).​

I'm still be willing to introduce surgical removal of completed networks to the Infestation.

A completed symbiotic network can be removed surgically with a DC 40 Heal check, each attempt deals 3d4 Constitution damage to the host. A properly worded wish or miracle spell can cause the wart network to vanish. The spells remove disease, heal or limited wish will remove the network if the caster succeeds on a DC 25 Heal check. The spells banishment and dismissal can force the extraplanar portion of the nibish-riule away and sever it from the network if the nibish-riule fails a Will save (it has a Will save of +10 since the complete entity has to be exorcized). If the campaign used Psionics, the psychic chirurgery power can be used to sever the nibish-riule's nerve-links to the worry-wart network. Severing the nibish-riule from a symbiotic network leaves its unsightly warts behind, but they become inanimate and eventually heal and fade away like ordinary warts.​

 

[Cleon]

Oh, and we were talking about renaming Symbiont Traits to Symbiont Network Traits since they're different from the standard symbiont's SQ.

Modifying my current proposal(s) gives us:

Symbiont Network Traits: While attached to a host (see Infestation), a worry-wart acts on its host's turn each round, regardless of its own initiative modifier. It is not flat-footed unless its host is, and it is aware of any danger its host is aware of. Opponents may strike at a worry-wart's eyestalks as if they were attacking an object but can not attack the symbiont itself, since the nibish-riule infestation is inside the host creature. An eyestalk gains the benefit of the host's Dexterity modifier to AC instead of its own (if better than the worry-wart's), and gains any deflection bonus to AC the host has as well. Its own size modifier and natural armor bonus apply. Each eyestalk has 1 hit point. Severing an eyestalk deals no damage to the worry-wart. The symbiont regrows severed eyestalks in 1d10+10 minutes. Attacking an eye stalk provokes an attack of opportunity from the host.

The worry-wart symbiont never takes damage from attacks directed at the host. The symbiotic network can be removed by the methods described in its Infestation special attack (see above).

Any spell the host creature casts on itself automatically also affects the worry-wart. Additionally, the host may cast a spell with a target of "You" on the symbiont instead of on itself. The symbiont may do likewise with any spell or spell-like ability it uses. The host and worry-wart can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the host's or the symbiont's type. Spells targeted on the host by another spellcaster do not affect the worry-wart, and vice versa.

 

[abe ray]

What would happen if the worry-wart infected a non sentient creature? Would it act like a low-grade awakening spell?

 

[Cleon]

What would happen if the worry-wart infected a non sentient creature? Would it act like a low-grade awakening spell?

Hmm, that's an interesting point.

A mindless creature might not be able to distinguish impulses from the worry-wart's network from those of its own nerves, so the nibish-riule could theoretically steer its host around by feeding it messages such as "nice food over there!" or "danger in front of you!"

A non-sapient sentient (Intelligence 1 or 2?) could have difficulty distinguishing its own ideas from the nibish-riule's, so might act out whichever suits its temperament and situation the best - for example, a wolf would likely give "hunting that juicy rabbit" a higher priority than "investigating those queer ruins" no matter how interesting the worry-wart finds said ruins.

At a certain intelligence (maybe 3 or higher?), the host will know the "voice in its head" is not its own and presumably reacts as a sapient creature would according to its personality - trying to ignore or argue with the worry-wart, thinking its possessed and seeking an exorcist, hailing the nibish-riule as a "god from beyond", or however else it responds to symbiotic network infection.

 

[abe ray]

Could a worry-wart infect a beholder or a different aberration? what would happen if a infected person got turned into a mind flayer?

 

[Cleon]

Could a worry-wart infect a beholder or a different aberration? what would happen if a infected person got turned into a mind flayer?

There is nothing in the original monster entry that restricts the worry-wart to particular hosts, although presumably the host at least needs to be a living organism with skin and a nervous system. That'd include 3E Aberrations such as beholders.

If a host was subject to ceremorphosis than most likely you'd just get a mind flayer with a nibish-riule symbiotic network under the skin. The illithid larvae and the worry-wart do attach to opposite ends of their host's nervous systems after all. The worry-wart would likely lose and "warts" on the host creature's head, since said head would have been replaced by a mind flayer's.