Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

[Shade]

+2 Int, +4 Cha?

I agree with freyar about them not needing a racial bonus to Wisdom.

I'm perfectly happy with that.

 

[Cleon]

I'm perfectly happy with that.

OK, so it looks like it's just the X in "Creating a Knight Terror", Org, CR and LA to figure out.

"Knight terror" is a template that can be added to any lawful evil humanoid with x (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A knight terror has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Do we want to restrict them to "Always Lawful Evil"? There isn't anything in the original description that ties them to a particular outer plane, and they're not Undead, so I think "Always evil, usually lawful" would be better.

I think we'd better add a HD requirement, preferably at least 7 HD (the minimum sorcerer CL for crushing despair and phantasmal killer). I'll say 9 HD for the sake of argument.

CR wise I'd eyeball them at being a +2 CR. They're not quite as nasty as a vampire, being a lot easier to kill, but those SLAs and the ability boosts to Strength and Wisdom make them significantly nastier than a regular fighter or cleric.

They're roughly comparable to a Half-Fiend, whose CR is "HD 4 or less, as base creature +1; HD 5 to 10, as base creature +2; HD 11 or more, as base creature +3."

Making a guess at the LA I'd say +4 or +5 like a Half-Fiend, but it's not an exact science.

Creating a Knight Terror
"Knight terror" is a template that can be added to any evil humanoid with 9 or more Hit Dice (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A knight terror has all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

...

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Int +2, Cha +4.

Environment: Any.
Organization: Solitary or hierarchy (2-3).
Challenge Rating: Same as the base creature + 2.
Treasure: Standard.
Alignment: Always evil, usually lawful.
Advancement: By character class.
Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +4.

 

[freyar]

Looks pretty good, but don't we usually use BAB or something instead of strict HD?

So what happened to always evil, usually lawful anyway?

 

[Cleon]

Looks pretty good, but don't we usually use BAB or something instead of strict HD?

I was thinking of a Will save, since they appear to be created by fanatical willpower.

So what happened to always evil, usually lawful anyway?

Oh blast it...

...*EDIT POST*...

I don't know what you're talking about, it's "always evil, usually lawful" in my previous post.

 

[Shade]

Yeah, let's go with the base Will save approach. +6 is the equivalent of 9 sorcerer HD.

Knights are traditionally lawful in D&D. The 3e Knight class is "always lawful". That said, I don't mind non-lawful knight-terrors, but chaotic might be stretching it a bit much. Shall we instead make it "always lawful evil or neutral evil"?

The rest looks good.

 

[freyar]

Always LE or NE is ok with me if Cleon agrees.

 

[Cleon]

Yeah, let's go with the base Will save approach. +6 is the equivalent of 9 sorcerer HD.

Problem is, that they form from fighter-types as well. It's have to be an 18th level high level fighter to have a +6 Will save, which seems too much.

How about combining a more modest Will save with a BAB.

Maybe Will +4 (= 12th level fighter, 4th level cleric) and BAB +8 (= 8th level fighter, 12th level cleric)?

Knights are traditionally lawful in D&D. The 3e Knight class is "always lawful". That said, I don't mind non-lawful knight-terrors, but chaotic might be stretching it a bit much. Shall we instead make it "always lawful evil or neutral evil"?

If they've become perversions of their original selves I'd rather allow the possibility of them having a reversal of alignment (like a Chaotic Evil anti-paladin).

Furthermore, they're not all Knights, some are clerics. They could be fanatical priests of chaotically-inclined deities.

That said, if you're both set on "Always evil, never chaotic" or the like I don't mind it.

Besides, even an "Always" aligned creature can have exceptions, like the proverbial Succubus Paladin.

 

[Shade]

How about combining a more modest Will save with a BAB.

Maybe Will +4 (= 12th level fighter, 4th level cleric) and BAB +8 (= 8th level fighter, 12th level cleric)?

That could work, or we could simplify it even further requiring proficiency in all martial weapons along with the mid-range Will save.

If they've become perversions of their original selves I'd rather allow the possibility of them having a reversal of alignment (like a Chaotic Evil anti-paladin).

Furthermore, they're not all Knights, some are clerics. They could be fanatical priests of chaotically-inclined deities.

That's a pretty convincing argument. I'm comfortable with "always evil" now.

 

[Cleon]

That could work, or we could simplify it even further requiring proficiency in all martial weapons along with the mid-range Will save.

Hmm, that might work, let's try some numbers...

A proficiency in all martial weapons and a +4 Will save would require a fighter 12 or fighter 1/cleric 4 or cleric 1/fighter 6. That's quite a wide variation, from 12 levels to 5.

I'm favouring keeping the BAB and maybe lowering the Will save requirement.

All martial weapons and +7 BAB and +3 Will save would require fighter 9 or fighter 1/cleric 8 or cleric 1/fighter 6, for a level 7-9 minimum for a "two class" build. That feels about right.

 

[freyar]

But aren't there some that are single-class clerics? The all martial weapons makes that difficult. I'd rather just go with strict BAB and/or Will save requirements. What about +6 Will save or +6 BAB or something?