D&D 3.x Converting monsters from Mayfair Games Role Aids product line

[Cleon]

Undecided on Huge vs Large. 13HD suggested. They can carry a swarm, probably, and the death throes act like dust of sneezing and choking. We may want to boost the HD a little compared to the swarm.

I also suggested that it could fly around in dust form á la gaseous form as well as playing possum as a scattering of dust.

I thought we'd decided on Huge and the swarm was produced by the monster rather than being an optional extra (there was a comparison to the Cloverleaf Monster, remember).

Boosting HD would be OK by me - 17 HD, just to be different?

Shouldn't the swarm count as part of the CR, like a summoned monster? So CR 10 then?

That would be my preference, too.

 

[freyar]

Oh, I didn't mean the swarm is optional, PCs definitely have to deal with it!

17HD is fine, and so is flight in dust form.

 

[Cleon]

Okay then, if we simply scale the Lesser Dust Spider up to Huge and give it 17 Hit Dice we get something like this:

Greater Dust Spider
Huge Magical Beast (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 17d10+85 (178 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 40 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (-2 size, +2 Dex, +5 natural) touch 10, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +17/+33
Attack: Bite +23 melee (3d6+12 plus poison)
Full Attack: Bite +23 melee (3d6+12 plus poison)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Death throes, dust form, poison, shed swarm, web
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., dust body, low-light vision
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +12, Will +6
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 15, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 10
Skills: 17
Feats: Ability Focus (poison), plus 5
Environment: Elemental Plane of Air and Elemental Plane of Earth
Organization: Solitary or clutter (2-4)
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: ?
Level Adjustment: —

At first glance that looks alright except its AC looks way too low. Methinks we should arbitrarily boost its NA by another 10-12 points.

So far we've got the following ideas for powers:

flight á la gaseous swarm while in dust form.

Ability to create dust of sneezing and choking like effect (as a regular attack and/or death throes).

Shedding a dust spider swarm.

Spell-like or supernatural abilities - glitterdust? dust cloud (=fog cloud), blindness (but not deafness)?

Summon Dust Devil - like I suggested for the Markeen:

Summon Dust Devil (Sp): Once per day a markeen can summon a Small air elemental to appear in its whirlwind form anywhere with a 50 foot range. This spell-like-ability allows the air elemental to remain in its whirlwind form for 1 round per Hit Dice the markeen possesses. The elemental can not revert to its normal form to make slam attacks, but must remain in its whirlwind form while summoning lasts, moving as the markeen directs it. Summon Dust Devil is the equivalent of a 2nd level spell.
​

 

[freyar]

Yes, let's boost the NA.

Take dust form from above and just add gaseous form text to it?

I think the SLAs you mention can just be folded into the dust of sneezing and choking. I think I'd make that dust a kind of aura plus death throes. How's that sound?

 

[Cleon]

Yes, let's boost the NA.

Another 10 points NA for AC25?

Take dust form from above and just add gaseous form text to it?

That reminds me, we also talked about making the Greater Dust Spider more resistant to strong winds.

How about:

Dust Form (Su): A greater dust spider can collapse its body into a cloud or pile of dust. As a cloud of dust it can fly at a speed of 20 feet (maneuverability perfect). As a pile of dust it can slide about at a ground or climb speed of 20 ft., but cannot Run. It requires a DC20 Spot check to determine a greater dust spider in dust form is a living creature and not merely natural dust. In other respects, treat dust form as gaseous form (damage reduction 10, no physical attacks et cetera). Assuming dust form takes a move action. A greater dust spider in dust form can switch between dust cloud and dust pile as a swift action or return to its spider form as a swift action.

I think the SLAs you mention can just be folded into the dust of sneezing and choking. I think I'd make that dust a kind of aura plus death throes. How's that sound?

Rather than an aura I was thinking of something the dust spider could release as an action or in response to an attack.

I also think we'd better remove the "automatic stun" effect of dust of sneezing and choking. If their are multiple monsters that's a TPK waiting to happen.

How about modifying the swarm's Choking Retribution?

Choking Cloud (Ex): Whenever a greater dust spider takes damage, it releases a cloud of dust in a 20 foot spread. It can also release a cloud of dust as a [move?] action. All creatures within the cloud must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or be stunned for Y rounds and take Z Constitution damage from a burst of violent sneezing and choking. The save DC is Constitution-based.

The Death Throes can be a more potent version of the above.

Death Throes (Ex): If a greater dust spider is slain its body explodes into a deadly cloud of dust. All creatures within a 40 foot spread who fail a DC W Fortitude save take X Constitution damage immediately and are disabled by sneezing and choking (treat as stunned) for Y rounds. In addition, those failing a second DC W Fortitude save 1 minute later are dealt Z points of Constitution damage and are stunned for an additional Y rounds. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +A racial bonus.

 

[freyar]

How about we simplify the dust form like so?

Dust Form (Su): A greater dust spider can collapse its body into a cloud or pile of dust. This functions as a
gaseous form spell, except as follows. The dust spider's base speed becomes 20 ft, and it gains a climb speed of 20 ft and a fly speed of 20 ft (perfect). It cannot run. It requires a DC20 Spot check to determine a greater dust spider in dust form is a living creature and not merely natural dust. Assuming dust form takes a move action and return to its spider form as a swift action.

The rest could work, so let's see what Shade thinks.

 

[Shade]

That all looks appealing.

I find it odd that the dust of sneezing and choking causes stunning, especially when heavy smoke has a similar effect without resorting to causing the stunned condition.

A character who breathes heavy smoke must make a Fortitude save each round (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or spend that round choking and coughing. A character who chokes for 2 consecutive rounds takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.

 

[Cleon]

How about we simplify the dust form like so?

Dust Form (Su): A greater dust spider can collapse its body into a cloud or pile of dust. This functions as a gaseous form spell, except as follows. The dust spider's base speed becomes 20 ft, and it gains a climb speed of 20 ft and a fly speed of 20 ft (perfect). It cannot run. It requires a DC20 Spot check to determine a greater dust spider in dust form is a living creature and not merely natural dust. Assuming dust form takes a move action and return to its spider form as a swift action.

That looks much better, let's use it.

 

[freyar]

I guess smoke effectively dazes you (I assume you can't take other actions while coughing). We could go with dazed for the dust effect, if we think stunned is too much. Though I think we did want them to be nasty.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

Greater dust spiders are x feet in diameter and weigh about a pound.

How much Dex damage should the poison deal?

Should death throes match the choking cloud? If so, can we simply drop the death throes entry and add "or is slain" after "takes damage" in the choking cloud ability?