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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 6292347" data-attributes="member: 57383">We still haven't agreed on the DC for the check. 22 is OK by me - I don't think it should be that difficult to escape from.I'm still liking the idea of adding Jump to the escape skills, since the original text says you can "Leap" out of a sticky touch. Furthermore, it's a Str-based skill and the other two skills are Dex-based, so it adds a bit of variety.We can keep the Escape Artist if you like it - upon reflection, Tumble is a trained-only skill so if that's the only Dex skill option then a non-jumper with a high Dex would be at a disadvantage.e.g.:Sticking Touch (Ex): As an attack action, a Veiled Maidens may  make a touch attack with either an unarmed strike or veil that, if  successful, forms a connection with its opponent that allows the Maidens  to feel their opponent's every move.  This connection grants the Veiled  Maidens a +2 insight  bonus to AC and attack rolls against that  opponent.  The connection can be broken if the opponent  succeeds on a DC 22 Escape Artist, Jump or Tumble check; if the Veiled  Maidens ends its turn with the opponent  outside the reach of its veil (15 ft.); or if the Veiled Maidens chooses to  release the connection.If that's OK by you I'm willing to add it to the Working Draft and move on.It's basically just a garotte attack. The stat line for the Veiled Maidens in the combined monster roster even has "SA Garotte" in their entry.The original entry has:The first round only, the maidens use a special strangulation attack if the characters accept the dance passively. The first round of the attack, a successful hit roll means an unwary victim must make a save vs. paralyzation. A victim who fails suffers 1d4 points. Each round thereafter, the victim suffers 1-4 points and must make a constitution save or die. Otherwise the maidens make more conventional attacks.It seems most straightforward to adapt one of the official garotte rules. The most recent 3.5 version is in Dragon #355: "Strangling Weapons" from Dragon #355 The special attack of garrotting first appeared in Song and Silence. Attempting to strange someone is a form of grappling, and follows all the normal rules for a grapple, except as follows.    Strangulation doesn't work against any creature that does not breathe (such as constructs, deathless, elementals, and undead), nor against oozes, plants, vermin, incorporeal, or ethereal creatures. Your DM might designate other creatures immune to strangulation as well.    When you are grappling, in addition to the other actions you can take (Player's Handbook, 156) you may attempt to gain a strangle hold on your opponent by making a special melee touch attack. If you succeed at this special melee touch attack, you grab hold of your opponent's throat (or slip a garrotte around his neck) and can begin to strangle him on the following round. You do not ignore all of your opponent's armor bonus to his AC when making this attack, as shown on the accompanying chart.    To strangle your opponent you must win an opposed grapple check every round (made in place of an attack). If you use only your hands in the strangle attempt (and not a garrote or other appropriate weapon) you take a -4 penalty on the initial opposed grapple check (but not on any subsequent grapple checks) and cannot strangle a creature larger than yourself. You must use both hands to strangle (unless you have a locking garrote—see below) and cannot take any of the following grapple actions: attack your opponent, draw a light weapon, pin an opponent, retrieve a spell component, or use an opponent's weapon. A creature being strangled cannot attempt to pin an opponent, take an opponent's weapon used to garrotte him, speak, or take any vocal actions (such as casting a spell with a verbal component).    If you succeed at your strangle attempt, your opponent can no longer breathe but can still hold his breath for up to 2 rounds per point of Constitution (beginning that same round). After this period of time, the creature must make a DC 10 Constitution check to continue holding his breath. The save must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.    When the strangled creature fails one of these Constitution checks, he begins to suffocate. In the first round, he falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, he drops to –1 hit points and is dying. On the third round, he suffocates. If you stop strangling your opponent once he falls unconscious he remains unconscious for 2d6 minutes. An opponent who drops to –1 hit points before you release your strangle hold is automatically stable at –1 hit points. A strangled creature may pretend to fall unconscious by making a successful Bluff check. AC VERSUS STRANGULATION [TABLE="width: 500"] [TR] [TD]Armor Type[/TD] [TD]Target’s AC modifier against Strangulation Attack[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Natural armor[/TD] [TD]Provides normal protection (equal to the bonus of the natural armor)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Full plate[/TD] [TD]Provides a +4 armor bonus[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Leather collar[/TD] [TD]Provides a +4 bonus[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gorget[/TD] [TD]Provides a +10 bonus[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]   HIT POINT STRANGULATION As an optional rule, you may have strangling damage instead of, or even in addition to, causing suffocation. In this cast, for each round you maintain a strangle hold you deal 1d3 points of nonlethal damage (Small creatures deal 1d2) plus 1-1/2 times your Strength modifier. You can make this damage lethal with a –4 penalty on your opposed grapple checks, if you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, or if you use a garrote. That seems rather over-complicated, so I think we can boil it down into a simpler special attack. Probably one that only affects flat-footed or surprised opponents, since the original version says it only works against "passively" accepting victims on the first round of an encounter.A whip, spiked chain, or steel cable does 1d8 strangling damage according to those rules, so I reckon that's how much the Strangling Veils ought to do.</blockquote>

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