Converting original D&D and Mystara monsters
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Cleon
Legend
Yes, I was thinking that when I last looked through their stats.
Problem is, apart from increasing their size by three stages and octupling their Hit Dice there's not much too them compared to the Kara-Tur Gargantua.
Cleon
Legend
Looking at the OD&D "template", they're only twice as tall but have eight times the HD and four times the damage.
Double height suggests one size step increase, but octuple HD suggests three size steps. Shall we average to two size steps bigger while keeping the eightfold HD increase?
Double height suggests one size step increase, but octuple HD suggests three size steps. Shall we average to two size steps bigger while keeping the eightfold HD increase?
Cleon
Legend
The Mystara Monstrous Compendium "template" for 2nd edition AD&D is basically the same as the OD&D version except it uses quadruple Hit Dice and quadruple pluses instead of the OD&D Gargantua's octuple HD plus 1 HD per plus. The Mystara version also has "size: four times normal".
e.g. a gargoyle with 4+4 HD would be 36 HD as an OD&D Gargantua (eight times 4 HD plus 4 HD for its +4 hps), but 16+16 HD as a Mystaran MC Gargantua.
So, quadruple HD or octuple HD?
One size increase or two?
I'm thinking Quadruple HD and two size steps, since that's consistent with standard 3E advancement.
Although now I'm puzzled why the Mystara MC Gargantuan Troll is 20 feet tall, how is that four times normal size?
e.g. a gargoyle with 4+4 HD would be 36 HD as an OD&D Gargantua (eight times 4 HD plus 4 HD for its +4 hps), but 16+16 HD as a Mystaran MC Gargantua.
So, quadruple HD or octuple HD?
One size increase or two?
I'm thinking Quadruple HD and two size steps, since that's consistent with standard 3E advancement.
Although now I'm puzzled why the Mystara MC Gargantuan Troll is 20 feet tall, how is that four times normal size?
Mortis
First Post
I agree with that - you could probably get to octuple HD by either applying the template (if we go that way) to an advanced version of the creature or just advancing the gargantuan version.
BTW my vote is for the template version as that is what they basically are anyway - IIRC the gargantuan creatures shown in the rulebooks where described as 'examples'.
Regards
Mortis
Cleon
Legend
Mystaran Gargantua Working Draft
Okay then, shall we have it octuple HD and three size steps then, that way a Medium sized creature will end out Gargantuan.
Let's start roughing it out:
Mystaran Gargantua (Template)
Mystaran gargantuas are living creatures that have been increased to enormous size by magical experimentation.
Creating A Mystaran Gargantua
"Mystaran Gargantua" is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal, living creature, hereafter referred to as the base creature.
A mystaran gargantua uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type
The base creature's type remains the same. The base creature's size increases by three size categories.
If the base creature is Huge-sized, the mystaran gargantua will be Colossal-sized with a Space of 40 ft. and a reach of 40 ft. if tall, 30 ft. if long. If the base creature is Gargantuan or larger in size, the mystaran gargantua will be Colossal-sized with a Space of 50 ft. and a reach of 50 ft. if tall, 40 ft. if long.
Hit Dice
Multiple the base creature's Hit Dice by 8.
Speed
Double the base creature's speed in all its movement modes. If the base creature can fly, its maneuverability rating drops to clumsy.
Armor Class
Increase the base creature's natural armor according to the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers Table. This includes the improvement for the creature's size increase.
Base Attacks
A mystaran gargantua's Base Attack Bonus and Grapple checks are recalculated according to its increased hit dice, size and ability scores.
Attacks
As base creature.
Damage
A mystaran gargantua retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapons and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. The damage values of these attacks increase according to the following table (this includes improvement for increased size).
Mystaran Gargantua Damage
Old Damage (Each) -- New Damage
1 ----- 1d6
1d2 -- 1d8
1d3 -- 2d6
1d4 -- 3d6
1d6 -- 4d6
1d8 -- 4d8
1d10- 4d10
1d12- 4d12
2d6 -- 8d6
2d8 -- 8d8
Special Attacks
A mystaran gargantua creature retains the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the abilities and modifications described below. The DCs of its special attacks are recalculated according to its new hit dice and ability scores.
Area Attacks (Ex): A mystaran gargantua creature's area attacks (such as a spider's ability to generate webs) increase in size to gigantic proportions. Multiply the height, width, and length of the base creature's area attack by the area modifier given on the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table.
Increased Damage (Ex): If the base creature has a special attack that deals hit point damage, increase this damage according to the Mystaran Gargantua Damage table, or multiply by 4 if the attack does a set amount of damage (e.g. if the base creature has an special attack doing 4 points of acid damage the mystaran gargantua's version would do 16 acid damage.)
If the base creature has a special attack that causes ability damage or ability drain, such as a poison bite, increase this ability damage by the amount given in the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table.
Swallow Whole (Ex): A mystaran gargantua gains a swallow whole attack if it has a bite attack and is Gargantuan size or larger. The creature can swallow opponents up to three size smaller than itself (i.e. up to the size of the base creature) by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, an opponent takes takes crushing damage equal to the creature's bite attack plus 8 points of acid damage from the creature's gizzard. Increase the acid damage by 4 points for every size step the mystaran gargantua is larger than Gargantua. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 10 plus half the creature's natural armour). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantua's interior can hold 2 opponents of the base creature's size, 8 opponents 1 size smaller than the base creature, 32 opponents 2 sizes smaller, and so on.
If the base creature already has a swallow whole attack, use that attack's damage values or sizes (adjusted by the gargantua's greater size and Increased Damage special ability), if the result would be better than those given above.
Trample (Ex): A mystaran gargantua gains a trample attack. It can trample opponents smaller than itself, doing the damage given in the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table plus 1½ times the gargantua's Strength bonus. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½HD + the titanic creature’s Str bonus) for half damage.
If the base creature already has a trample attack, use that attack's damage value adjusted by the Increased Damage special ability if the result is better than the damage of the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table.
Special Qualities
A mystaran gargantua retains all the base creature's special qualities. Any fast healing or regeneration it possesses is doubled in value.
Saves
A mystaran gargantua's saves are recalculated according to its increased hit dice and ability scores.
Abilities
A mystaran gargantua's ability scores are increased according to the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers Table. This includes the improvement for the creature's size increase.
Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers Table
Size of .......Natural
Base Creature . Armour . Str . Dex . Con
Fine............ Same ... +6 .. -2 .. --
Diminutive...... Same .. +10 .. -2 .. +2
Tiny ........... +2NA .. +18 .. -2 .. +6
Small .......... +5NA .. +20 .. -2 . +10
Medium ......... +9NA .. +24 .. -2 . +12
Large ......... +12NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Huge .......... +16NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Gargantuan .... +20NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Colossal ...... +25NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Skills
A mystaran gargantua retains the class skills of the base creature, recalculate its skills according to its increased hit dice.
Feats
A mystaran gargantua will gain feats according to its increased hit dice. In addition, it gains Snatch as a bonus feat. If the mystaran gargantua has a fly speed it also gains Hover as a bonus feat.
Environment
As base creature.
Organization
Solitary?
Challenge Rating
?
Treasure
As base creature.
Alignment
As base creature.
Advancement
Multiply the Hit Dice of the base creature's advancement by eight and increase the size categories by three steps.
Example: a gargoyle has 4 Hit Dice and advancement 5-6 HD (Medium); 7-12 HD (Large), so a mystaran gargantua gargoyle has 32 Hit Dice and advancement 33-48 HD (Gargantuan); 39-96 HD (Colossal).
Level Adjustment
—
Okay then, shall we have it octuple HD and three size steps then, that way a Medium sized creature will end out Gargantuan.
Let's start roughing it out:
Mystaran Gargantua (Template)
Mystaran gargantuas are living creatures that have been increased to enormous size by magical experimentation.
Creating A Mystaran Gargantua
"Mystaran Gargantua" is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal, living creature, hereafter referred to as the base creature.
A mystaran gargantua uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.
Size and Type
The base creature's type remains the same. The base creature's size increases by three size categories.
If the base creature is Huge-sized, the mystaran gargantua will be Colossal-sized with a Space of 40 ft. and a reach of 40 ft. if tall, 30 ft. if long. If the base creature is Gargantuan or larger in size, the mystaran gargantua will be Colossal-sized with a Space of 50 ft. and a reach of 50 ft. if tall, 40 ft. if long.
Hit Dice
Multiple the base creature's Hit Dice by 8.
Speed
Double the base creature's speed in all its movement modes. If the base creature can fly, its maneuverability rating drops to clumsy.
Armor Class
Increase the base creature's natural armor according to the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers Table. This includes the improvement for the creature's size increase.
Base Attacks
A mystaran gargantua's Base Attack Bonus and Grapple checks are recalculated according to its increased hit dice, size and ability scores.
Attacks
As base creature.
Damage
A mystaran gargantua retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapons and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. The damage values of these attacks increase according to the following table (this includes improvement for increased size).
Mystaran Gargantua Damage
Old Damage (Each) -- New Damage
1 ----- 1d6
1d2 -- 1d8
1d3 -- 2d6
1d4 -- 3d6
1d6 -- 4d6
1d8 -- 4d8
1d10- 4d10
1d12- 4d12
2d6 -- 8d6
2d8 -- 8d8
Special Attacks
A mystaran gargantua creature retains the special attacks of the base creature and also gains the abilities and modifications described below. The DCs of its special attacks are recalculated according to its new hit dice and ability scores.
Area Attacks (Ex): A mystaran gargantua creature's area attacks (such as a spider's ability to generate webs) increase in size to gigantic proportions. Multiply the height, width, and length of the base creature's area attack by the area modifier given on the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table.
Increased Damage (Ex): If the base creature has a special attack that deals hit point damage, increase this damage according to the Mystaran Gargantua Damage table, or multiply by 4 if the attack does a set amount of damage (e.g. if the base creature has an special attack doing 4 points of acid damage the mystaran gargantua's version would do 16 acid damage.)
If the base creature has a special attack that causes ability damage or ability drain, such as a poison bite, increase this ability damage by the amount given in the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table.
Swallow Whole (Ex): A mystaran gargantua gains a swallow whole attack if it has a bite attack and is Gargantuan size or larger. The creature can swallow opponents up to three size smaller than itself (i.e. up to the size of the base creature) by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, an opponent takes takes crushing damage equal to the creature's bite attack plus 8 points of acid damage from the creature's gizzard. Increase the acid damage by 4 points for every size step the mystaran gargantua is larger than Gargantua. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 10 plus half the creature's natural armour). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantua's interior can hold 2 opponents of the base creature's size, 8 opponents 1 size smaller than the base creature, 32 opponents 2 sizes smaller, and so on.
If the base creature already has a swallow whole attack, use that attack's damage values or sizes (adjusted by the gargantua's greater size and Increased Damage special ability), if the result would be better than those given above.
Trample (Ex): A mystaran gargantua gains a trample attack. It can trample opponents smaller than itself, doing the damage given in the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table plus 1½ times the gargantua's Strength bonus. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a –4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½HD + the titanic creature’s Str bonus) for half damage.
If the base creature already has a trample attack, use that attack's damage value adjusted by the Increased Damage special ability if the result is better than the damage of the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers table.
Special Qualities
A mystaran gargantua retains all the base creature's special qualities. Any fast healing or regeneration it possesses is doubled in value.
Saves
A mystaran gargantua's saves are recalculated according to its increased hit dice and ability scores.
Abilities
A mystaran gargantua's ability scores are increased according to the Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers Table. This includes the improvement for the creature's size increase.
Mystaran Gargantua Modifiers Table
Size of .......Natural
Base Creature . Armour . Str . Dex . Con
Fine............ Same ... +6 .. -2 .. --
Diminutive...... Same .. +10 .. -2 .. +2
Tiny ........... +2NA .. +18 .. -2 .. +6
Small .......... +5NA .. +20 .. -2 . +10
Medium ......... +9NA .. +24 .. -2 . +12
Large ......... +12NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Huge .......... +16NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Gargantuan .... +20NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Colossal ...... +25NA .. +24 .. -- . +12
Skills
A mystaran gargantua retains the class skills of the base creature, recalculate its skills according to its increased hit dice.
Feats
A mystaran gargantua will gain feats according to its increased hit dice. In addition, it gains Snatch as a bonus feat. If the mystaran gargantua has a fly speed it also gains Hover as a bonus feat.
Environment
As base creature.
Organization
Solitary?
Challenge Rating
?
Treasure
As base creature.
Alignment
As base creature.
Advancement
Multiply the Hit Dice of the base creature's advancement by eight and increase the size categories by three steps.
Example: a gargoyle has 4 Hit Dice and advancement 5-6 HD (Medium); 7-12 HD (Large), so a mystaran gargantua gargoyle has 32 Hit Dice and advancement 33-48 HD (Gargantuan); 39-96 HD (Colossal).
Level Adjustment
—
Last edited:
Cleon
Legend
I'm thinking that rather than "The damage of its weapons increases by 4 stages" it'd be better off with a table.
Damage
A mystaran gargantua retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapons and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. The damage values of these attacks increase according to the following table (this includes improvement for increased size).
Old Damage (Each) -- New Damage
1 ----- 1d6
1d2 -- 1d8
1d3 -- 2d6
1d4 -- 3d6
1d6 -- 4d6
1d8 -- 6d6
1d10- 6d8
1d12- 7d6
2d6 -- 8d6
2d8 -- 8d8
Let me just check that template...
I like everything in the Special Attacks:
Damage
A mystaran gargantua retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapons and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. The damage values of these attacks increase according to the following table (this includes improvement for increased size).
Old Damage (Each) -- New Damage
1 ----- 1d6
1d2 -- 1d8
1d3 -- 2d6
1d4 -- 3d6
1d6 -- 4d6
1d8 -- 6d6
1d10- 6d8
1d12- 7d6
2d6 -- 8d6
2d8 -- 8d8
Let me just check that template...
I like everything in the Special Attacks:
I think we need to modify the trample and poison increase to account for the variability in size, since a Fine spider would become Medium as a mystaran gargantua and probably shouldn't have +2d6 poison damage. We can just add them to the table. The Trample should probably kick in at Huge-sized or so.
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