Spelljammer Converting Spelljammer creatures

[freyar]

Well, like I said, 1d8 or maybe 1d10 would work better for me.

That's the rule I was thinking of for Imp Grab.

 

[Cleon]

Well, like I said, 1d8 or maybe 1d10 would work better for me.

Well as I said before in my last post, I'm OK with anything from 1d8 to 1d12, so let's use 1d8 for the time being.

That's the rule I was thinking of for Imp Grab.

Okay, let's rough something out:

Firstly, I'm thinking we ought to rename the attack from "sting" to "tentacles". They may have been called stings in the original, but in 3E terms a sting natural weapon is an impaling attack, which acid-dripping tentacles definitely aren't!

Secondly, I'm thinking we should limit how many tentacles it can hold an opponent with based on the target's size. Like the Darktentacles in the Monster Manual II.

Thirdly, the Gammaroid has a +148 grapple modifier so there's no way the Noble Gossamer can beat it with a grapple check unless it has a monstrous racial bonus to grapple checks (as in at least +70!).

I'm thinking we'd be better off giving it a version of Attach instead of Improved Grab, so its sticky tentacles always adhere to prey but a Gammaroid could easily burst free with its awesome strength if it wanted to use the action for it.

We might still want to give it a racial bonus to grapple checks to help it keep hold of prey. I'd prefer a bonus based on the number of attached tentacles, but would consider a flat number.

e.g.:

A noble gossamer can use only two tentacles at once against a Small or Medium-size opponent. Against a larger foe, it can use two additional tentacles for each extra 5 feet of face the opponent has, provided that it has the reach. Against a Tiny or smaller opponent, the creature can use only one tentacle. It can use a maximum of two tentacles against all foes in any single 5-foot by 5-foot area.

Note that a darktentacles has a 50% higher tentacle density of three tentacles per 5 ft. face, but they're also a lot smaller than the Gossamer Noble!

Attach (Ex): If a noble gossamer hits an opponent with a tentacle attack, its sticky tentacle automatically attaches to the opponent. An attached noble gossamer is effectively grappling its prey, but has the option to simply use its tentacle to hold the opponent (–20 penalty on grapple checks, but the gossamer is not considered grappled).

For the racial bonus to grapple, I'd add one of the following:

A noble gossamer gains a +2 racial bonus on grapple checks per tentacle it has attached to an opponent (e.g. +6 for three tentacles).

A noble gossamer has a +X racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the stat block above).​

Constrict (Ex): Every round a noble gossamer keeps hold of an opponent with its acid-secreting tentacles, it automatically inflicts 1d8 acid damage per tentacle that has hold of the opponent (e.g. four tentacles do 4d8 acid damage). In addition, the opponent is automatically exposed to poison attacks from all tentacles that are holding it.

Here's an "Improved Grab" version.

Improved Grab (Ex): If a noble gossamer hits an opponent that is at least one size category smaller than itself with a tentacle attack, it can automatically establish a hold as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict the opponent in subsequent rounds. Thereafter, the gossamer has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use its tentacle to hold the opponent (–20 penalty on grapple check, but the gossamer is not considered grappled).

A noble gossamer gains a +2 racial bonus on grapple checks per tentacle that has hold of an opponent (e.g. +6 for three tentacles).

A noble gossamer has a +X racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the stat block above).

 

[freyar]

Tentacles with 1d8 acid it is.

I'd be fine with Attach and a +2 bonus per tentacle. I'm not sure if I'd call the auto-grapple damage "constrict" though. That just seems wrong for acid and poison. I can't think if there's some similar ability we can steal a name from. Maybe something like Dissolve?

 

[Cleon]

Tentacles with 1d8 acid it is.

I'd be fine with Attach and a +2 bonus per tentacle. I'm not sure if I'd call the auto-grapple damage "constrict" though. That just seems wrong for acid and poison. I can't think if there's some similar ability we can steal a name from. Maybe something like Dissolve?

Well there are creatures with similar abilities, although I can't recall any specific names offhand.

A quick glance through my monster collection only found things like the Acid Zombie which used the standard improved grab plus constrict.

Acid zombies are specialized undead that designed to grasp foes in a bearlike hug while holding while their acidic coating eats them alive.

Constrict (Ex): An acid zombie deals 2d8+6 points of damage plus 3d4 points of acid damage with a successful grapple check. Large acid zombies deal 3d6 points of acid damage, while Huge acid zombies deal 3d8 points of damage.

Maybe it'll be easier to just rename the Noble Gossamer's "Constrict" attack to something like "Corrosive Grasp"? It might take quite a long time to discover an existing precedent.

 

[freyar]

The difference between the acid zombie and the noble gossamer is that the zombie also does normal (bludgeoning, I suppose) damage with constrict. It's not a true precedent in that sense. But I agree with renaming. I'd be ok with Dissolve or Corrosive Grasp. In fact, the second option sounds like something we've used before.

 

[Cleon]

The difference between the acid zombie and the noble gossamer is that the zombie also does normal (bludgeoning, I suppose) damage with constrict. It's not a true precedent in that sense.

Erm yes, if I'd found a good precedent I'd have said so. I only found "constrict plus acid" monsters like said Zombie.

But I agree with renaming. I'd be ok with Dissolve or Corrosive Grasp. In fact, the second option sounds like something we've used before.

It does have a familiar ring, but nothing turned up when I did a quick search for "Corrosive Grasp" in my folder of creatures.

Anyhow, it seems we're agreed on the approach so...

Updating the Noble Gossamer Working Draft.

 

[Arnwyn]

Yeah, I'd swear I'd heard "corrosive grasp" before as well...

I like it so far.

 

[freyar]

Are we happy with Poison already? I guess we're counting on the gammaroids sometimes failing saves by rolling natural 1s, so it should be tough enough for most PCs.

I think Voidborn may need some work. We were going to drop the "collapsing under gravity" bit, right?

 

[Cleon]

Are we happy with Poison already? I guess we're counting on the gammaroids sometimes failing saves by rolling natural 1s, so it should be tough enough for most PCs.

I'm OK with the Poison in the current draft, but would be happy to consider any modifications you fancy.

I think Voidborn may need some work. We were going to drop the "collapsing under gravity" bit, right?

Well it is still "redded out" for review.

Rather than having it simply collapsing in the gravity/air envelope of an object larger than itself, I was thinking we could just have it take damage that scales to the size of the object.

Maybe something like 1d12 damage, plus an additional 1d12 for every time the weight multiplies by 10? That way it'd still take fatal damage if it gets too close to a planet but is able to survive brief contact with larger objects close to its own size (e.g. combat with a Gammaroid).

For example, if an average Noble Gossamer weighs somewhere around 400 to 500 tons, a 2,000,000-ton Gammaroid is 5,000 to 4,000 times heavier and would cause 4d12 "gravitational" damage per round to a Noble Gossamer within its zone of influence.

(A Noble Gossamer is 120-250 feet in diameter in the MC9, if we start at 120 ft. and scale up the 6-inch diameter 1-ounce Standard Gossamer we converted, the weight comes out at 432 tons)

It'd be simpler if we say it "collapses" in the gravity field of a planet(oid) sized object, but is fine near smaller objects. Maybe have it so it takes an object a million times more massive than it to kill it?

Alternatively, we could combine the two into a little "Gravitational Damage by size/mass" table like we did with the Gossamer Swarm.

 

[freyar]

I'm happy enough with the poison also, so I guess we just need Arnwyn to weigh in.

I think I like the simple approach of collapsing in the field of a planet-ish object. So something at least 100 million tons kills it?