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Spelljammer Converting Spelljammer creatures
- Thread starter Shade
- Start date
Cleon
Legend
That's pretty much what I had in mind.
Let's see, we'd need to modify the first paragraph somewhat...
How big should the "large enough" be?
Should it be based on size or weight?Logically weight it ought to be weight, maybe something like "If the ramming attack hits an object weighing at least one-tenth as much as the gammaroid, the gammaroid must end its movement in the target's space."
That'd make it something like:
Ramming (Ex): As a standard action, a gammaroid that is using Spinning Flight (see below) can fly at up to triple speed (1,350 feet) and ram any target whose space it enters, usually a spelljamming ship or flying creature. If the ramming attack hits an object weighing at least one-tenth as much as the gammaroid, the gammaroid must end its movement in the target's space. This attack deals ??? points of damage, plus an additional 12d6 fire if the gammaroid is employing its Flame Sheathe ability (see above). If the target is a creature, it can attempt either an attack of opportunity or a DC 92 Reflex save for half damage. The save DC is Strength-based.
If a gammaroid rams a ship, in addition to the above damage it also makes a Strength check to breach its hull. The break DC varies with the type of vessel rammed, with typical values as follows: rowboat DC 20, keelboat DC 23, sailing ship or longship DC 25, warship DC 27, or galley DC 30 (See Chapter 5 of the DMG for information about ships). Success normally holes the hull, causing the ship to founder in 1d10 minutes. Success by 15 [?] or more (e.g. a result of 40+ against a break DC 25 longship) immediately destroys the ship by shearing the hull in half or smashing it to splinters.
Regardless of the check result, every creature aboard a ship rammed by a gammaroid must attempt a DC 15 [?] Reflex saving throw. Success means the creature takes 1d6 points of damage from being thrown about by the impact; failure means the creature is hurled overboard.
Arnwyn
First Post
Okay, that one post (with KE) made me laugh. Great, great stuff.
Totally agree with it able to keep going.
I like the idea of just using Break DCs by ship sizes (keel length, I presume?). Using spelljamming ships without much in the way of rules and context would probably be less helpful.
We know from the PHB/SRD:
Rowboat: up to 12 ft.
keelboat: 50-75 ft.
longship: 75 ft.
sailing ship: 75-90 ft.
warship: 100 ft.
galley: 130 ft.
I also like 1/10th the weight of a gammaroid (200,000 tons! LOL). I will laugh if something like that ever comes up in a game. Epic. (Dwarven flying citadel vs. gammaroid, I guess...)
Totally agree with it able to keep going.
I like the idea of just using Break DCs by ship sizes (keel length, I presume?). Using spelljamming ships without much in the way of rules and context would probably be less helpful.
We know from the PHB/SRD:
Rowboat: up to 12 ft.
keelboat: 50-75 ft.
longship: 75 ft.
sailing ship: 75-90 ft.
warship: 100 ft.
galley: 130 ft.
I also like 1/10th the weight of a gammaroid (200,000 tons! LOL). I will laugh if something like that ever comes up in a game. Epic. (Dwarven flying citadel vs. gammaroid, I guess...)
Cleon
Legend
I think we'd be better off not referring to specific spelljamming ships, since they aren't in the SRD. Using some sort of size-based DC would seem to be the way to go.
Indeed, if I remember correctly I think that's what we did to to get the DCs for the Chont's Ramming - they're based on a DC of roughly 18 + 1 per 2 squares that's been tweaked a bit.
It's pretty obvious if you compare the figures:
| Vessel Type | Length (feet) | Length (squares) | Break DC | vs. Length |
| Rowboat | up to 12 | 2 squares | 20 | ½squares+19 |
| Keelboat | 50-75 | 10-15 squares | 23 | ½squares+15½-18 |
| Longship | 75 | 15 squares | 25 | ½squares+17½ |
| Sailing Ship | 75-90 | 15-18 squares | 25 | ½squares+16-17½ |
| Warship | 100 | 20 squares | 27 | ½squares+17 |
| Galley | 130 | 26 squares | 30 | ½squares+17 |
Oh dammit. I remembered it weighing 4 million tons, but it's actually 2 million tons. All my KE values are two times too much.
I'd better go back to that post and revise the figures...
Cleon
Legend
I thought the point was that we weren't listing them, although we could include a few examples.
Also, it occurs to me that it might be better to call it a "Breach DC" instead of "Break DC", since (a) we've said it's a check to "breach its hull" and (b) Break DC is already a term in the SRD so it already has its own game-mechanical meaning.
How's this for a revision of the second paragraph:
If a gammaroid rams a ship, in addition to the above damage it also makes a Strength check to breach its hull. The breach DC varies with the type of vessel rammed, but is normally 18 plus 1 per 10 feet of length, although an adjustment of between –5 to +10 may apply due to the sturdiness of design, materials and/or craftsmanship. A typical 50-foot merchant ship or 75-foot longship is breach DC of 25, a typical 100-foot warship is DC 30 (See Chapter 5 of the DMG for information about ships). Success normally holes the hull, causing the ship to founder in 1d10 minutes. Success by 15 or more (e.g. a result of 40+ against a breach DC 25 longship) immediately destroys the ship by shearing the hull in half or smashing it to splinters.
Cleon
Legend
That was pretty deliberate. The original monster's ramming attack did an automatic critical plus a 30% chance of destroying a ship, so I wanted the "ship destroyed" effect to be the one we needed to worry about. The "foundering" effect's not necessarily that bad since the crew can just repair the hole - a ship floating in space isn't likely to sink when holed!
Bear in mind that spelljamming ships tend to be significantly larger than the standard D&D maritime ships.
With a +32 Strength bonus, a ship'd need a Breach DC 32 to have a 30% chance of being destroyed (as it takes a roll 15+ over the DC to destroy the ship, so it needs to roll a 47+). That's the Breach DC of a reasonably well made (+2 adj) 120-foot long ship, like a Tradesman or Cuttle Command - which are pretty average Spelljammer vessels.
If we were using actual Spelljamming rules I'd just set a DC based on Hull Points. Something like Breach DC 30 plus +1 per 10 Hull Points minus Armor Rating plus an optional adjustment from -5 to +5 for if the standard of materials, design & construction is particularly good or bad.
That'd give numbers in the right ballpark. It'd make an Illithid Dreadnaught about Breach DC 37 (Hull 90, AR 4, +2 for thick wood => 5% chance of destruction), a Hammership's roughly Breach DC 32 (Hull 60, AR 6, +2 for thick wood => 30% chance of destruction), and a Dragonfly Breach DC 23 ((Hull 10, AR 8, +0 for well built but thin wood => 75% chance of destruction).
