AD&D 2E Converting the old 2E bard kits?

[BOZ]

i could be wrong, but i don't think that bards were ever limited to only singing - in fact, i think that musical instruments of a variety were always a part of their shtick. flutes, lutes, pipes, etc...

 

[MageCat]

Ah, so many kindred souls out there who like a jack-of-all-trades, yet so few people who want to be a dorky, annoying, wandering minstrel. One can see why bard's must have high charisma-they ones without it are surely all murdered!

I realize this thread is old, but I am working on a variation of the bard that has leadership skills instead of singing talent. The special abilities will work the same, with changes like the following:

Inspire courage/greatness/heroics: instead of giviing a bonus from inspiring courage with music, the character will give his allies a bonus by coordinating the team with tactics shouted during combat.

Inspire competence: instead of performing soothing music, the character will use a sort of "pep talk" to bolster an ally's self-competence, thereby granting the bonus.

Countersong/song of freedom: Instead of song, the character will talk allies through the magical effects-think of all the TV shows you have seen where one character tells another who is charmed in some way: "Fight it! you can do it! don't let it control you!"

Fascinate: instead of some type of performance, the character will start a monologue about some controversial topic. Everyone at some point has been involuntarily drawn into a debate about politics, religon, or philosphy when they overheard a nearby conversation. Admit it! heheh...

Suggestion: once the character has drawn a victim into debate using their fascinate ability, they can then use their debating prowess and charm (that high charisma ) to swing the target to their point of view... Of course, they may change the subject once they have the target creature enthralled in conversation, so that the suggestion does not have to be about politics or whatever started the debate... heheh...

The perform skill will go bye-bye and be replaced with tactics and debate or some such. It is only fitting, after all, that the replacement for the almost-useless perform skill also be almost useless. I cannot think of an all-encompassing skill for this... so i guess the non-bard loses skill points in exchange for not being annoying. The best all-encompassing skill i can think of is parlance - it means conversation;discourse;talk. It is given as a synonym of speech in Devlin's dictionary. Many ranks in parlace skill will mean the character is a skilled speaker able to keep the audience interested and get the point across. The american heritage dictionary gives the following: "Speech, especially a conversation or parley."

Enough on that. Parlance replaces perform as the skill required to make the bard's skills work! Now, we need a class name that does not imply entertainment - Coordinator? Diplomat? Advisor? Sage! or perhaps philosopher... I think sage works best! it is descriptive of the bard's varied knowledge, and implies the wisdom that is implied by the class's guidnace and debating skills!

 

[the Jester]

I replicated the Riddlemaster kit's ability to get an extra mistake or extra time on a puzzle with a feat (that I call Riddlemaster, natch).

 

[The Great Bear King]

Two things wrong with your assesment of the Bard though. One, they can wear light armor and, better than the Rogue, they can use all shields except Tower shields. So as far as their armor class, i'd give one to the Bard here.

Second, you seem to believe that singing is the only way to their abilities. Read carefully under their abilities. It says that while it falls under "music" they can actually use poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, and whistling to name a few (One wonders if satire or jokes/ comedy would also qualify).

I just hope you will see that they do hold more value in a fight than you give em credit for. This isn't to say they substitute well for any fighter type, but crafted well, they can hold their own.

Would Bill Maher or Dennis Miller qualify.

 

[The Great Bear King]

Second, you seem to believe that singing is the only way to their abilities. Read carefully under their abilities. It says that while it falls under "music" they can actually use poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, and whistling to name a few (One wonders if satire or jokes/ comedy would also qualify).

Would Bill Maher or Dennis Miller qualify.

 

[LeifVignirsson]

I tried to convert the Blade and posted it on here LONG ago. Not sure how well it was received, but it is out there somewhere (not feeling well enough to do a search). Besides, you give it some time and you can do it on your own, you just have to make sure that you think it though and not rush it at all.

 

[qstor]

I think most of the kits could be duplicated by careful skill selection and maybe a level of rogue or fighter.

I'd like to see the feat posted on the Riddlemaster.

thanks

Mike

 

[the Jester]

I'd like to see the feat posted on the Riddlemaster.

Well, technically this is house rules material, but here ya go.

RIDDLEMASTER (General)
Your mind works quickly on puzzles and riddles.
Prerequisites: Int 13+
Benefit: Whenever you are presented with a puzzle or riddle with a time limit, you are considered to think extremely quickly and are allowed one and a half times the allotted time. Whenever presented with a non-timed riddle or puzzle you are allowed one free mistake (your subconscious warns you just before you actually make the mistake). This feat doesn’t help you with traps, locks, etc. without puzzles or riddles as part of them.

 

[the Lorax]

As an alternative to converting the 2E kits, does anyone have any suggestions for replacement abilities for 'bardic music'? Perhaps a set of quasi-magic abilities based on high skill in a more dungeon useful skill, or group of skills?

Yep, IMC, at 1st level, bards may forgo bardic music abilities, in exchange for a feat (I also give bards a bonus feat every 8 levels). That would give 3 feats by 16th level, plenty of room for specialization into a style that would fit any of the old 2E kits.