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<blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 987432" data-attributes="member: 1210">Well, a CR 25 dragon doesn't have to run away to kick the fighter's butt.&nbsp; He can grapple him, snatch him in mouth (no save vs. breath, remember?), use his spells, etc.&nbsp; He should be prepped against the fighter with spells like stoneskin, protection from (insert most effective energy type against him), etc.&nbsp; And the first time I looked at those two spells I knew, without question, they were overpowered, at any level.&nbsp; Assassin's Senses is a 2nd-level spell that beats Keen Edge (3rd level) hands down; it affects a creature, not a weapon; isn't limited to piercing and slashing weapons; and, for a weapon with a threat range of 20, doubles the threat range (as would keen edge) PLUS increases the multiplier by one!&nbsp; I mean, come on.&nbsp; That's like saying that Alter Self should be better than Polymorph Self, except shorter duration.&nbsp; Besides which, Assassin's Senses is self only- I thought this guy was a f8/wm10, not a f8/wm10/wiz3.&nbsp; Even if he was, though, he'd still be toast against a properly-played CR 25 dragon.&nbsp; Heck, the way dragons work out vs. parties, most 25th-level groups of four would be toast against him if he's played well!No, I don't buy that a CR 25 dragon is meat against any 18th-level fighter, at least not if it's played intelligently, like the millenia-old creature it is, full of cunning and craftiness, with a horde full of magic items it's smart enough to use. &quot;Here comes another silly fighter,&quot; thinks the dragon, smirking, who uses his superior reach, movement, and breath intelligently.&nbsp; He doesn't have to run away- he has to fight smart, like a dragon instead of a colossal scorpion.&nbsp; He should disarm or sunder that pesky weapon- maybe even eat it so the fighter can't get it back.&nbsp; He should use his spells to dispel whatever hokey magic the fighter can use to protect himself.&nbsp; Then, if Mr. Fighter pulls out his bow- which he's not too hot with, mind you, since he's focused all his abilities into that yummy sword- the dragon laughs and starts showing him what missile fire's all about by dropping boulders and breath on him.And keep in mind, too, that the fighter isn't doing crap singlehandedly if he's relying on others to cast those spells on him, anyway.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="the Jester, post: 987432, member: 1210"] Well, a CR 25 dragon doesn't have to run away to kick the fighter's butt. He can grapple him, snatch him in mouth (no save vs. breath, remember?), use his spells, etc. He should be prepped against the fighter with spells like stoneskin, protection from (insert most effective energy type against him), etc. And the first time I looked at those two spells I knew, without question, they were overpowered, at [i]any[/i] level. Assassin's Senses is a 2nd-level spell that beats Keen Edge (3rd level) hands down; it affects a creature, not a weapon; isn't limited to piercing and slashing weapons; and, for a weapon with a threat range of 20, doubles the threat range (as would keen edge) PLUS increases the multiplier by one! I mean, come on. That's like saying that Alter Self should be better than Polymorph Self, except shorter duration. Besides which, Assassin's Senses is self only- I thought this guy was a f8/wm10, not a f8/wm10/wiz3. Even if he was, though, he'd still be toast against a properly-played CR 25 dragon. Heck, the way dragons work out vs. parties, most 25th-level groups of four would be toast against him if he's played well! No, I don't buy that a CR 25 dragon is meat against any 18th-level fighter, at least not if it's played intelligently, like the millenia-old creature it is, full of cunning and craftiness, with a horde full of magic items it's smart enough to use. "Here comes another silly fighter," thinks the dragon, smirking, who uses his superior reach, movement, and breath intelligently. He doesn't have to run away- he has to fight smart, like a dragon instead of a colossal scorpion. He should disarm or sunder that pesky weapon- maybe even eat it so the fighter can't get it back. He should use his spells to dispel whatever hokey magic the fighter can use to protect himself. Then, if Mr. Fighter pulls out his bow- which he's not too hot with, mind you, since he's focused all his abilities into that yummy sword- the dragon laughs and starts showing him what missile fire's all about by dropping boulders and breath on him. And keep in mind, too, that the fighter isn't doing crap singlehandedly if he's relying on others to cast those spells on him, anyway. [/QUOTE]

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