Converting to 3.5 woes...

[Limper]

My DM and gaming group insist we convert to 3.5. I personally loathe the idea… I haven’t seen a single change that I would consider better as a DM or as a Player. So in all likelihood when the current story is over I will be finding myself a new group or forming one, which is basically the same thing I guess.

We have about 4 campaigns going at once all revolving on a central plot axis. The highest level group is 18th and the lowest is 7th… and in each and every one I find that my characters in NO way what so ever have improved. I might be able to accept this if I was playing a wizard in them all but I’m not. The changes to anything relating to wizards is pretty appalling in my book and it looks like my 18th level PC (Bard1/Wizard10/Loremaster6) is pretty much nerfed into near uselessness… the changes render him a pathetic shadow of what he was.

The rest of the line up are fighter sorts who due to class changes and or feat changes are being gimped up as well. We had been using the Monte ranger (version 1) and two of the fighter types had Ranger levels (around 4 and 1) but were not archers or two weapon fighters so the new ranger is a sever change pretty much invalidating those two. These character just can’t be converted… I HATE Legolas and Drizzt and their appropriate schtick. Oh well what can you do?

For me the 3.5 edition seems to run wild with the concepts I hated about 3.0 and cut out the bulk of what I did like. Has anyone else found themselves in a similar boat? Has anyone else found that ALL of their existing characters have been invalidated by the new edition?


Just curious

 

[Mort]

If players are using the Monte Cook ranger, how are the changes to the core ranger affecting them at all?

How exactly is your 18th level character useless? You seem to be saying that wizards are now useless.

So far the only thing my group has been grumbling about is the 1 min/level buffs, but this has made them realize that they were over dependent on them anyway.

I can’t say I like every change, but so far I’ve agreed with a good portion of them.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Ummm... this may be a silly qustions, but... if you HATE Legolas & Drizzt & their schtick, why are you playing a Ranger?

 

[Seule]

I have several characters:
Evoker 10 / Air Elemental Savant 11: This character will get weaker, but he was dominant, so that's fine.
Psion (Shaper) 6/Constructor 2: Unsure what if anything will change. I doubt much will until next spring.
Fighter 1/Cleric 3/Ranger 2/Windrider 1: This character will likely actually get better. I might actually use the Ranger feats, as currently I don't.

The rules seem to be trying hard to balance things up, making more character archetypes balanced. People who made optimized characters (like the first of mine) will be nerfed, while people who made less effective characters for story reasons will be given compensation. I'm all in favor.

The Ranger you speak of is trying to go from a custom variant class (Monte's) back to a core class. Of course there will be conflict. If you were going from core to core, you'd be gaining options, not losing them.

Finally, no character is invalidated. They may lose or gain power, but a blind one legged kobold with multiple personalities is perfectly valid, if not very effective.

--Seule

 

[BryonD]

What does the rest of your group see in 3.5 that you do not?

 

[Limper]

The Monte ranger had virtual feats so you could make a shamanic nature boy of your own... you didn't have to have a bow or fight with two swords (sure you don't have to do these but it is giving up a fair chunk of class abilities if you don't). I liked the nature warrior theme not the LegoDrit thing.

The loss of two feats that can only be replaced with something you don't want and don't need for design integrity is the difference betweeen 3.5 Rnager and Monte Ranger.


The 18th level charcter... I used my spells for recon, infiltration and other sorts of subterfuge (1 min a level or less doesn't give you any time to do it now). The world we've been using is pretty light on the magic items and heavy on high damage dealing baddies, so the gimping of my buffing capasity is gonna hurt BAD.
From what I'm reading my equipment list got weaker across the board and my spells are all 1 fight at best and weaker to boot.

Wizards are indeed now useless for what I enjoyed using them for which was all the stuff they used to be able to do EXCEPT damage spells... now they seem to only be good at damaging and thats about it.

Do you still see them as being viable for anything much more than artillery? I used to hate the Sorcerer but now it looks better than the wizard. Versitility for a few minutes a day or LOTS of damage dealing potential.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

The rules seem to be trying hard to balance things up, making more character archetypes balanced. People who made optimized characters (like the first of mine) will be nerfed, while people who made less effective characters for story reasons will be given compensation. I'm all in favor.

--Seule

As a player with a less effective character for story reasons I can say that my character concept is destroyed by 3.5. I am playing a Aasimar Bard2/Cleric3/Mystic Wanderer5. I am already 3 levels back in spellcasting and therefore much less effective than the strait classes. I am playing a unarmored nature cleric of silvanus, but 3.5 takes away my mage armor thus reducing its AC. Additionaly the Loss of Speak with Animals and Speak with plants from the cleric list takes away major story parts of my character. I am working on being an enchantress utilizing bard abilities and enchantment spells, however my bard abilitites are being limited and Spell Focus (Enchantment) is reduced as well. Hold person was one of my few offensive spells and it is near useless now as well. I have yet to see any compensation that will salvage my already less effective character from the massive loss of power it will face. Oh well, if we go to 3.5 I can say goodby to my old character and build a 2 handed fighter like everyone else instead since they are actually being increased in power unlike everyone else.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

All I can say is adapt and overcome. Our group has been playing with the revised Haste for sometime now. That change alone took alot of the thunder away from casters since double nukage was utterly insane for blasting critters to bits and you could prepare your defensive spells twice as fast.

I don't particularly like the changes since now it takes me quite a while to prepare my spell defenses. I am usually unable to engage in combat without putting myself at serious risk for 3 or more rounds depending on what enemies are present.

As I told my party, I don't intend to die, so if I am not ready, you are on your own. My Sorcerer flees combat if he is attacked in an unprepared state. I really don't care if the rest of the party dies.

If that is how they want the Revised edition to be, then that is how it will be. I know more than just my wizard or sorcerer is going to have to run their sweet patootie off if they get rushed by the enemy.

The thing that sucks the most is that most fighter types can take a few hits, while my sorcerer better not receive even one round of hits or he might be quite dead. Yet the new lower spell durations for things like Fly and Improved Invisibility leave me at the mercy of whatever monsters happen to be wandering the dungeon.

I must admit. I think it is utter crap to hamstring casters to such a degree. They should have realized that low hit points and often low AC are usually offset by the use of certain spells like Fly and Stoneskin. Its a damn shame.

 

[Limper]

What does the rest of your group see in 3.5 that you do not?

You got me. They keep ranting about how cool it all is and how its so much better but then I guess the rest of the group and the DM to my knowledge have NEVER written anything even close to optimised... but then they all die alot and I don't. I don't optimise for one trick pony PC's... I try and come up with a design which will allow my PC a solid chance at a long career.

Does that make me a munchkin? I hate writting new characters so I try and get the most of the ones I do.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Have you considered asking your DM about creating a new 'weapon style' set of feats for your own ranger? You could easily create a new one to go along with two weapon fighting and archery.

As for your wizard... Well, as a player of a sorcerer with Polymorph Other, Haste, AND Time Stop, I can only say the following: Don't be such a bloody wuss.