Convince me to let my players use these items.

[DM-Rocco]

I have some reservations about letting my players use the Radiant and Bloodclaw weapons from the Adventurers vault and using the Battelrager Vigor class feature from the Martial Powers book.

I think they are too powerful, but my players don’t agree. From other DMs and Players, who have played with these items or class variants, what are your thoughts? Can you convince me otherwise?

 

[Nightson]

If you're playing in an zombiepocalypse game then I can see radiant being too good.

 

[MichaelSomething]

May I suggest throwing some monsters with those exact weapons and powers at your PCs? If the PCs defeat then easily, then those powers might not be as strong as you think they are. If the PCs have a very hard time, you can say that the powers are too good since the PCs had such a hard time. If nothing else, it would be fun to do.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Battlerager Vigor is, IMHO, a poor design decision. 4e did a good job of keeping the temporary hit points in check (they don't stack. period.) up until the Battlerager. In my experience, the Battlerager is ridiculously robust thanks to his near constant cushion of ever-increasing temp hp. He often ends the battle with more hp (counting the temps) than he started with.

That is just screwy.

 

[DM-Rocco]

May I suggest throwing some monsters with those exact weapons and powers at your PCs? If the PCs defeat then easily, then those powers might not be as strong as you think they are. If the PCs have a very hard time, you can say that the powers are too good since the PCs had such a hard time. If nothing else, it would fun to do.

I might just do that.

Part of my argument for banning the items is as follows:

Bloodclaw: 1-6 points of damage for a 2-12 (or 3-18 if two handed) return just seem to good to be true.

Radiant weapon can always deal an extra 3-6 (depending on plus) of extra damage. I just didn't see anything comparable to this for its level that was an at-will.

Battlerager – just too good, how are you ever going to kill him?

 

[Pierson_Lowgal]

As for bloodclaw, without having seen it in play, I'd say it's weak on one-handers and really good on two-handers, and best on a battlerage vigor character using a two-handed weapon. Remember that each point of damage to a PC is more important than a point of damage to a monster, and the PC is losing the opportunity to choose another weapon property by selecting bloodclaw.

Radiant is pretty strong. Possibly the strongest weapon I've come across, and I've probably looked at all the melee weapons below 14th level. It's a little better than subtle and footpad's friend, which give damage bonuses but only most, instead of all the time like radiant, but subtle is level 13 compared to 15.

 

[yesnomu]

I haven't seen a battlerager, but some people on the boards say they aren't very fun to have around, with a fair amount of bookkeeping. You might try allowing it for a session, with the proviso that you retain the right to immediately switch him to two-handed mastery if you don't like it.

Bloodclaw is very powerful--but it eats away the HP like nobody's business if you use it a lot. My barbarian, in every fight so far, has hurt himself more than enemies have hurt him. (He also puts out a ****ton of damage, though--2d6+26 at level 11 with an at-will.) I think it might be too good with Battlerager, but it's probably OK for anyone else.

 

[Prism]

Battlerager – just too good, how are you ever going to kill him?

Ranged attacks will do the job...and the bloodclaw will do a pretty good job too

 

[Obryn]

The battlerager is insanely durable, but poor at dealing damage due to lower hit chances. (Also, most Invigorating powers deal just a pittance.)

General consensus leans toward it being overpowered, but it's something I'd allow before I consider banning it. Even if it's not overpowered, it's basically a big damage sponge that sucks at dealing damage - a quick recipe for grind, as I see it.

-O

 

[Engilbrand]

I'm playing a Warforged Battlerage Vigor Fighter with a Bloodclaw Executioner's Axe. I'm good. Tracking the temporary hit points are pretty easy. Then again, I'm not an idiot. It's basic math. I'm also nowhere near indestructible. Against minions, sure, but we don't JUST fight minions.
In terms of power, I'm one of the better members of the party, but we're also a smaller group. I don't shine brighter than everyone else. Decent defense, slightly better offense. About what is to be expected.
I like Bloodclaw when I remember to use it. It's a point of damage to deal 3 damage. Sure, it gets bigger at higher levels, but it's not that crazy. It's also not the first weapon that I go to for all of my characters.
For the most part, I operate on the idea that everything they've made is decently balanced. It works for us. Rather than knee-jerk freak about something, allow it into the game if it's what the players want. If some things are just TOO crazy for your individual group, talk it over with them and make changes accordingly.
I'm with a good group. If I got with a different one, and the DM said, "I'm not allowing these things." I would probably discuss it. I hate hearing, "Well. I think it's broken." I disagree more often than not with those people.