Cooperative based party

[atomn]

I just got Complete Psionics for Christmas and it made me think that a neat group would be one based all around abilities that enhance your allies (specifically ones with a set radius, not enhancements such as buff spells). How well do you think a group consisting of a Bard, Marshall, Dragon Shaman and Divine Mind would do? The synergy of their auras and music seems like it could be pretty wicked. And lots of those classes could fill in typical roles (fighter, archer, sneaker, face, etc.). But would the lack of a dedicated healer and arcane magic user be too detrimental?

 

[Ry]

I think 4 enhancers has been done very well... as a party of all clerics.

 

[Piratecat]

The biggest challenge would be tracking the buffs and their areas of effect. When a buff was active, I'd require everyone to put an index card out saying what that buff was, its area and its type. Then I'd probably make a correctly-sized wire circle out of pipecleaners or somethign for use on the battlemap.

It'd be a remarkable effective party.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I'm not too sure. Oh, there's no doubt that unless they wound up with lots of overlapping effects (e.g. three +1 morale bonuses to attack) that the group will be competent at lots of tasks but it will be fairly low in excellence. IME the biggest gains in buffs tends to be making the individual who is good become awesome, rather than making a competent one be good. The mega-buff cleric may seem to be at odds but IMO putting the same buffs on the fighter gets more bang for the buck, if for no other reason than the fighter's damage output would ramp up as the buffs arrive.

This group would get around some of that as the buffs affect everyone but I'm thinking that AE spells will slaughter the closely-packed party (most of those effects have defined ranges) or battlefield control powers (entangle, Wall of X, bullrush even) will nerf them pretty hard. Barring some serious healing power I'm unaware of, I think the Marshall will find themselves starting the 2nd or 3rd fight of the day at half hitpoints.

 

[atomn]

I like the pipecleaner and index card ideas, they'd help a ton with keeping things organized. I'd really like to play in a party like this, I think it would be very interesting tactically and the tight-knitness of the group is very appealing too.

 

[atomn]

This group would get around some of that as the buffs affect everyone but I'm thinking that AE spells will slaughter the closely-packed party (most of those effects have defined ranges) or battlefield control powers (entangle, Wall of X, bullrush even) will nerf them pretty hard. Barring some serious healing power I'm unaware of, I think the Marshall will find themselves starting the 2nd or 3rd fight of the day at half hitpoints.

Ah, I didn't really consider AE spells. That's a good point. Still, I'd like to see how well in practice it would work.

 

[Nifft]

Marshal is a one (or three) level dip class, if used optimally.
Divine Mind is exceptionally weak. I recommend not using it at all.

My optimal aura-party would include:
1: Paladin / Marshal (motivate dexterity, art of war) / Dragonlord (spiked chain + divine might = battlefield control)
2: Bard / Warblade / Dread Commando
3: Crusader / Cleric (law, magic) / Ruby Knight Vindicator
4: Druid (multiply auras by adding lots of animals / elementals)
(5: Dragon Shaman)

The Cleric and Druid would specialize in summoning help, because everything they summoned would multiply the effects of the auras.

Between the Dread Commando and the Paladin, I'd expect everyone to have at least a +12 bonus to Initiative. (D.Commando +5, Motivate Dex = Paladin's Cha bonus (+4?), Dragonlord aura = +3) They would all take Improved Initiative as well, and most would have at least decent Dexterity scores.

The Crusader and Warblade would divide up the good White Raven maneuvers and stances, and the Crusader would take ally-boosting Devoted Spirit stances & maneuvers. The Crusader would be able to switch stances in the same round he cast a buffing Cleric spell. The Warblade will always be in a White Raven stance, because he will take Song of the White Raven, to add his Warblade levels to his Bard levels for the purpose of his Inspire Courage bonus.

So, for an easy fight, they can just go in 'as-is' without wasting any resources -- the maneuvers and stances can be recovered easily, and the auras don't run out either. The Druid would be in animal form already, I'd assume, so that won't waste anything either.

They'd all be LN, and might have the sponsorship of the church of Wee Jas.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

Oooo, on a related topic, I'm making a group of NPCs who will be the next BBEG group that my party will face. They're based around the idea of "infinite disposable minions", because we all know that any problem can be solved by sacrificing minions. They're each CR 15, but the PCs won't have to fight them directly -- these guys got to high level by NOT sticking around for the end of a losing battle.

1: Nomad 5 / Thrallherd 10: "The Wheelman". He has taken Expanded Knowledge twice (for mindlink and astral construct). He provides minions, knows battlefield control powers and transportation powers, and stays out of melee range.

2: Ranger 5 / Beastmaster 10: "Range Rover". He stays back with Wheelman and shoots people while his many animal companions engage the party. In a pinch, he whips out his halberd and defends Wheelman.

3: Dragonfire Adept 15: "Aurora Aura". She has cast endure exposure on the minions, so her breath weapons won't destroy them, but if that's dispelled, she knows they're all disposable. She focuses on battlefield control breath effects. Many of her feats are Draconic Auras, and at 12th level she has taken Double Draconic Aura.

4: Marshal 3 / Fighter 2 / Rogue 2 / Dread Commando 5 / Blackguard 2: "Spike". He's the one guy who's actually in the front row. His saves are good, and he has Evasion.
= OR =
4: Bard 11 / Blackguard 3 / Marshal 1 (with a variant evil Devoted Performer): "Chant". He would be another 2nd rank fighter, probably with a ranseur and armor spikes, and he'd abuse [Divine] area-effect feats like Divine Resistance or Sacred Healing.


If I were using Tome of Battle (which I'm not in my game, not until the Players get a chance to rebuild their PCs using it if they so desire), then I'd probably change things significantly.

The most important piece is The Wheelman, for sure -- everyone else is basically there to augment his minions. His minions probably include a Cleric or two, so it should be assumed that everyone will get a free bless on the first round of combat.

Cheers, -- N