Cops looting bodies?

[Cage-Rattler]

Argh, I can't believe I missed this thread until now!

I'd have to say that I agree, for the most part, with your final assesment; that is, property is seized until trial, at which point the ultimate fate of the property depends on what the verdict was. I have a few points to offer, though:

For instance, there's little incentive for an officer to arrest a poor suspect since he can't hope to claim a lucrative reward after a successful conviction. On the other hand, it does encourage officers to pursue wealthy suspects and to falsefy evidence to ensure an eventual conviction.

The incentive lies in the fact that Harmonium officers are Factioneers first, and Civil Servants second; by which I mean, Harmonium members wouldn't even be in the Harmonium if they didn't believe in the faction philosophy. As I see it, the wealth of a suspect would have little bearing on an arrest*, since the only "incentive" needed by most Harmonium officers is the opportunity to bring order to chaos.

*Although trials would be a different matter.

There's also little to stop an out-and-out corrupt officer from pocketing an arrestee's possessions during an arrest naturally.

Again, this sort of behavior runs against the grain of Harmonium doctrine, and even the most corrupt officer would find it counter-intuitive to simply pocket a suspect's personal belongings (although the officer may eventually justify doing so by twisting the spirit of law in their mind.)

 

[Ambrus]

The incentive lies in the fact that Harmonium officers are Factioneers first, and Civil Servants second; by which I mean, Harmonium members wouldn't even be in the Harmonium if they didn't believe in the faction philosophy.

I think that's an idealized view of life in the Hamonium. Unfortunately some members are forcefully recruited into the Harmonium while others may eventually grow disillusioned with the faction after they've been in it for a while. So I believe it's entirely possible for Hardheads to be in the faction without necessarily believing in the faction's stated philosophy.

Besides, full-time factioneers, like it or not, are paid employees; their livelihood comes from performing this job. That means their quality of life is dependent on how much money they receive for performing their Harmonium functions. Once their personal well being becomes an issue, then they become prone to corruption just like anybody else. Whether they give into temptation or not is the true measure of a person.

Whether the faction high-ups like it or not, just like any occupation, there are many possible reasons for sticking with a group besides simple belief in its lofty philosophy.

 

[Cage-Rattler]

I think that's an idealized view of life in the Hamonium.

Fair enough. As anyone can probably guess from my forum avatar, I don't exactly hold an objective opinion on the matter.

Once their personal well being becomes an issue, then they become prone to corruption just like anybody else. Whether they give into temptation or not is the true measure of a person.

Very true, and you'll get no arguments from me here. Of course, then the question boils down to one thing: has their well being become an issue? This is probably depending on the DM's personal preferences; it's perfectly feasible for one campaign to feature well-compensated police officers living comfortable lives, and for another campaign to focus on a type of hard-work-little-pay-thankless-existence that breeds corruption.

...I believe it's entirely possible for Hardheads to be in the faction without necessarily believing in the faction's stated philosophy.

Again, granted -- but folks like that probably wouldn't get very far in any faction, and would be better off looking for a different philosophical clique.

 

[Ambrus]

it's perfectly feasible for one campaign to feature well-compensated police officers living comfortable lives, and for another campaign to focus on a type of hard-work-little-pay-thankless-existence that breeds corruption.

Sure, both views are possible, but I believe it's a fallacy that leading a comfortable life would somehow prevent corruption from taking hold. In my experience, greed exists regardless of the resources a person has. One can always imagine having more...

 

[Cage-Rattler]

Sure, one can always imagine more, but there's less temptation to (illegally) obtain more if one's immediate needs are already provided for.

In my experience, desire and greed are two different animals -- although the former easily leads to the latter.

I'm not saying that the Harmonium shouldn't have to deal with corruption; that's an issue with every faction or, rather every organization of any type. How severe that corruption is depends, essentially, on the DM's vision.

As a disclaimer, I do think the Harmonium got a bad rap throughout most of 2nd edition -- the explicit statements that "the Harmonium is basically lawful and good", followed by the implicit "but they're fascists", never sat well with me.

 

[Ambrus]

As a disclaimer, I do think the Harmonium got a bad rap throughout most of 2nd edition -- the explicit statements that "the Harmonium is basically lawful and good", followed by the implicit "but they're fascists", never sat well with me.

I don't believe they were ever portrayed as being good though, only lawful in the extreme. I do agree that the Harmonium has been poorly portrayed, regardless of edition though.

For reasons that escape me, they've always been described as being comically fascist, arresting one and all for the most absurd reasons. Their stated purpose is to bring about universal harmony and yet they're needlessly confrontational, abusive and offensive to pretty much everyone.

Take their relationship with the Cyphers for instance. The Transcendent Order is generally recognized as being a level-headed group of neutral cutters who often endeavor to mediate disputes for other factions. Sounds like they're also dedicated to universal harmony; seems like they should get along well with the Harmonium right? The Harmonium however, doesn't trust the neutral group of mediators and so considers the Cyphers their enemies. Huh?!?

For a good portrayal of Hardheads I'd suggest reading Tymora's Luck. In that novel, a patrol of Hardheads quickly arrives on the scene of a battle in the Guildhall Ward (IIRC) and are portrayed as efficient, savvy and disciplined but most surprising of all, courteous. They don't waste their time and resources by needlessly arresting everyone in sight, but instead question witnesses to quickly determine what occured. Good stuff.

 

[Gilladian]

I've not got much to add to this discussion on reference to Sigil, never having read/played there. But I want to mention a REALLY interesting novel for anyone interested in medievalesque/fantasy police forces. Tamora Pierce's YA novel "Beckah Cooper" (spelling?) is about a young woman who joins a "police force" that is in the process of evolving from the position of hired thugs who enforce a complex protection racket to a position where they actually uphold a set of laws that enforce fair treatment for all.

There's also a beautiful example of a fully-functional thieves guild in the midst of a power-struggle.