Core, and Epic magic items

[Nail]

True, I'm just pointing out that there is a rule governing new magic items. All new magic items are, for lack of a better term, subject to DM approval.

Yup. FWIW, I agree.

As an aside: IMO, most of the magic item pricing problems are either:

• a result of a poorly balanced spell (e.g. Prot/Evil), or
• a spell with target: personal (e.g. Shield).

Your example of Mage Armor is a perfect illustration.

 

[glass]

Shadeus; Epic is not core. I mentioned this in the first post.

Except that Epic is in the DMG now.


glass.

 

[the Jester]

Except that Epic is in the DMG now.

Except I don't believe epic magic items are discussed in the 3.5 dmg either- I looked the other day when I was looking for the maximum bonus info, figuring that was a good bet to its location. Granted, I skimmed, but I saw nothing. :\

 

[RuminDange]

As is happens, a fellow player and I are trying to disect the Robe of the Archmagi(white), to see how much it would cost to raise the resistance bonus from +4 to +5, as well as add a sacred bonus to AC (on top of the Armor bonus +5 it already has). This thread is close to on-topic for my current ruminations.

Have you figured this out yet? It seems to be a bear to back out the cost of everything. Any idea how to calculate the cost of the +2 Enhancment Bonus to Caster Checks against spell resistance? That is the only one I can't figure out exactly.

RD

 

[Sil]

Why would you think that? Honest question. I appear to have made your ignore list, but you're welcome.

I have no use for DMs or players that decide by fiat. If players and DMs can not engage intelligently and reasonably to discuss the pros and cons and come to a decision, then you are playing with the wrong people, and you should find some one else. If I ever got myself into a position where a player or DM said a flat NO, then I will have to spend a lot of time wondering how the heck I got here, and why the heck I am staying.

So if a player wants to create a Bow of True Striking, the GM is well within the rules to say, "Sorry, that item doesn't exist in the rules and I'm not willing to add it to my campaign".

See above. If you don’t actually engage the perceived problem then you really do not understand where your concerns lie. There is no limitation in the rules enabling magic items saying a player cannot make items. I agree that a player and DM should discuss the house rules surrounding the creation and inclusion of non core/campaign/included sources magic items. Probably BEFORE they start paying. What constitutes a broken item changes greatly if NPC's can have it too.

No, because the FRCS and PGtF are "Core" when playing a Forgotten Realms Campaign, in that they overwrite certain sections of "Core D&D."

I would suggest different language. I would say people play "core" and a "campaign setting" and include “other source material”. In your case "campaign setting" rules would override "core" in the case of conflict. Same with if you used UA gestalt, it would override parts of both perhaps.

Which brings us back to my first point. One should not use non core books to decide core. Forgotten Realms specific rules changes are for players of that campaign setting, and epic rules changes are for players in epic campaigns, as I see it.

Except that Epic is in the DMG now.

And the first sentence says the epic rules apply to characters who reach level 21. And what 'the Jester' said.

 

[Nail]

Any idea how to calculate the cost of the +2 Enhancment Bonus to Caster Checks against spell resistance?

We came to "an agreement" anyway.

The bonus to spell resistance is probably equal to a 2nd level Clr spell with a duration of 10 min per level. That is, it's probably worth 2*3*2000*1.5 = 18,000gp. I've seen elsewhere on these boards estimates of the magic item "price of feats" to be from 10,000gp to 20,000gp. Pick yer poison.

The Robe price in the DMG doesn't follow the rules given later in the DMG. So it's all just arm-waving anyway. The DMG market price is 75,000gp.

Here's the price based on the other rules in the DMG, as if we had made Robe of the Archmagi from scratch:

• +5 armor bonus to AC. (5*5*1000gp = 25,000gp)
• SR 18. [(18-12)*10,000gp = 60,000gp]
• +4 resistance to saves (4*4*1000gp=16,000)
• +2 CL vs SR (18,000gp)

Since this is a slotted item, all costs but the most expensive are multiplied by 1.5. (DMG p 282)

• +5 armor bonus to AC. (25,000gp * 1.5 = 37,500gp)
• SR 18. (60,000gp)
• +4 resistance to saves (16,000 * 1.5 = 24,000gp)
• +2 CL vs SR (18,000gp * 1.5 = 27,000gp)

Subtotal: 148,500gp * 70% (alignment cut) = 103,950gp

Again, the Robe of the Archmagi actually cost 75,000gp (DMG).

Dunno what to do with the descrepancy....it's kinda like you get the SR for half price. If we assume that's what happened (1/2 price for SR...but only in this special item), then we can't apply that to a new item, right? If so, increasing the Resistance bonus from +4 to +5 (which is why we started this excerise in the first place) will cost:

.70[(25,000gp*1.5) - (16,000gp*1.5)]= 9,450 gp.

I could post more math if you'd like. Do others have a different breakdown of the Robe of the Archmagi?

What a pain.

 

[RuminDange]

The bonus to spell resistance is probably equal to a 2nd level Clr spell with a duration of 10 min per level. That is, it's probably worth 2*3*2000*1.5 = 18,000gp. I've seen elsewhere on these boards estimates of the magic item "price of feats" to be from 10,000gp to 20,000gp. Pick yer poison.

I've seen somewhere feats range from 5,000gp to 30,000gp as well.

Subtotal: 148,500gp * 70% (alignment cut) = 103,950gp

Again, the Robe of the Archmagi actually cost 75,000gp (DMG).

Dunno what to do with the descrepancy....

You forgot the additional cut for required class ability. Robe of the Archmagi can only be used by Arcane Spellcasters. That drops your calculated price down to 72,765gp. Closer.

However I have set up an excel spreadsheet to help calculate stuff like this and have figured it out to exactly 75,000gp by selecting the price for the feat to fill the gap. If you want it let me know.

Armor Bonus +5: 5*5*1000*2 = 50000
Resistance Bonus +4: 4*4*1000*2 = 32000
Spell Resistance 18: (18-12)*(18-12)*10000 = 60000
+2 Caster Level Check vs SR: 22750 *2 = 45500
Total: 50000+32000+60000+45500 = 187,500gp
Alignment Required to Use: -30%
Arcane Spell Caster Required to Use: -30%

Final total: 187500 * (1-.3-.3) = 75,000gp

RD

 

[Sil]

That is very interesting, as i did not know you could apply multiple discounts to an item.

 

[apesamongus]

Final total: 187500 * (1-.3-.3) = 75,000gp

Why would the item use *2 instead of *1.5 for the extra effects after the first?

 

[RuminDange]

Why would the item use *2 instead of *1.5 for the extra effects after the first?

That comes from 3.0 version of creating magical items on multiple different abilities, each power beyond the most expensive is doubled in cost. I stuck with that as it not a confuzzled as 3.5 SRD on the same subject. Although I could easily adjust to either method described by the 3.5 SRD and still get the 75000 as all you have to do is decide the cost of the Spell Penetration feat or +2 Caster Level check against SR since it doesn't actually give the feat and would stack with someone who had the feat.

The two confusing guidelines in the 3.5 SRD or:

Special Base Price Adjustment Example
Multiple different abilities Multiply higher item cost by 2 Helm of brilliance

and

Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that do take up a space on a character’s body each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.

So which do you use? Highest cost times two, all additional costs *1.5?

Changing to use the 1.5 multiplier on each power beyond the spell resistance and still get the 75,000gp cost would require that the +2 Caster Level vs SR base cost to be 44,000gp, a little outside the normal cost of a feat.

Changing to use the 2 multiplier on only the highest cost (ie SR) and still get 75,000 cost would require that the +2 Caster Level vs SR base cost to be 26,500gp. Close to the same cost in my first method of 22,750gp which is still within the roughly 30,000gp limit I've seen for feats.

Hope that helps.

RD