Core, and Epic magic items

[RuminDange]

Because you can also whomp people with a stick every round and do damage. Doing damage is easy, but healing it is not. Even 1 HP of healing at will changes the entire nature of the game, as the party no longer needs to rest between fights for HP recovery when the cleric runs out of spells.

Very true indeed. Although when they are out of spells no matter how much healing they have they are going to run into trouble sooner or later. Boils down to style and choice. But like I've said and agreed with very overpowered*.

The Ring of Shocking Blow is like 18,000gp, three times what a 1st level spell at 3rd level caster for continuous use cost. (1*3*2000=6000). Since I tend to look at things for a point of view of it's not forbidden by the guidelines just recommended against, then just adjust the price, something like a Ring of Cure Light Wounds at will would be very high perhaps, definitely more than say a ring of regeneration. But that is why I am the DM to make that call.


*(Slightly biased point of view perhaps on the power level of things after running epic level games for the last 3 years. characters reaching level 40 after starting at 1st).

 

[Rystil Arden]

*(Slightly biased point of view perhaps on the power level of things after running epic level games for the last 3 years. characters reaching level 40 after starting at 1st).

I also have started at first and brought characters to epic, and the whole system is pretty durn broken after 10 levels of it or so. 40th-level is a game of rock/paper/scissors

Anyways, I would allow a CLW at will item to exist, but all we were saying is that it is broken for 1800 GP

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'm not sure that "grants a feat" is a good way to evaluate the cost of an item. There's clearly a wide range of values of feats. For instance, skill focus: craft: basketweaving isn't as valuable as Elusive Target and Sacred Vengeance isn't as valuable as Divine Might. Any analysis of the value of a granted feat needs to take the particular feat into account. This is probably one of the things that explains the wide variation in pricing for feat-granting items you see on the boards.

doing it that way provide no guidelines for making other magic items with other "feats".

 

[Sil]

I leave you guys alone for one day and you go and clutter my thread with a friendly discussion.

Anyways, I would allow a CLW at will item to exist, but all we were saying is that it is broken for 1800 GP

Well unless it really was an at will item (mental activation, free action), it still takes a standard action to activate, so is rather balanced in the way a bow of true strike would be. I can't see many players choosing to forego full attack or spellcasting to possably heal 1d8, in the middle of combat? Unless it was nessary, and if it is, then your glad to have it. And ya, it kills down time, but do you play the game to have down time? You are playing high fantasy, once you get to thoes levels, right?

I have played with a bow of true strike. Cool, but not broken. Cool to comand word to get a hit next round, but situational does not begin to cover it. Hunters mercy however is more breakable, IMHO, but that is the spells fault.

This is because the DM has the final say on what makes it into the game, not the player.

I just cant get my head around this idea. I must have just been lucky, but such an idea has never been expresed by any DM I have played with. Oh, and the final say lies with the player, because, again, you can take your books and go home.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Well unless it really was an at will item (mental activation, free action), it still takes a standard action to activate, so is rather balanced in the way a bow of true strike would be. I can't see many players choosing to forego full attack or spellcasting to possably heal 1d8, in the middle of combat? Unless it was nessary, and if it is, then your glad to have it. And ya, it kills down time, but do you play the game to have down time? You are playing high fantasy, once you get to thoes levels, right?

Umm...hello? You do realise that the game's Challenge Rating mechanic was balanced around not having free and infinite healing immediately in between each fight, right?

 

[RuminDange]

Umm...hello? You do realise that the game's Challenge Rating mechanic was balanced around not having free and infinite healing immediately in between each fight, right?

Challenge Rating mechanic balanced? This I really don't see nor agree with, too much problems there.
I seen that break down too many times during play to make me second guess it be correct, balanced or even reliable to judge game balance by it.



RD

 

[ZuulMoG]

While they are listed in the DMG, I think those discounts are a huge mistake.
If it was that easy to bring down the cost of items, why does not everybody have their own, custom-made items made for only a fraction of the cost?
(For example: The Sword of Cutting Enemies into Tiny Little Pieces, only usable by the CG Male Half-Orc Barbarian named Krusk).

Not only does this throw of the character wealth, but the logical conclusion would also be that the NPCs also use this, and thus all treasure found by the PCs will be completely useless.

That would be true if the DM were to allow that discount, but it does not make sense to do so. Swinging a Sword of Cutting Enemies into Tiny Little Pieces is niether a class-based nor an alignment-based ability. Casting arcane spells is class-based, casting spells with an Evil or Good descriptor is alignment-based.

Requiring a user to have a class feature, like Favored Enemy, for a weapon to gain the Bane ability against foes the user hates, or Sneak Attack, so it does extra damage when the target is flat-footed, are other examples of valid restrictions. How about a Mace of Disruption that only works if you have the Turn/Rebuke Undead class ability? Makes perfect sense.

 

[Sil]

That would be true if the DM were to allow that discount, but it does not make sense to do so. Swinging a Sword of Cutting Enemies into Tiny Little Pieces is niether a class-based nor an alignment-based ability. Casting arcane spells is class-based, casting spells with an Evil or Good descriptor is alignment-based.

Requiring a user to have a class feature, like Favored Enemy, for a weapon to gain the Bane ability against foes the user hates, or Sneak Attack, so it does extra damage when the target is flat-footed, are other examples of valid restrictions. How about a Mace of Disruption that only works if you have the Turn/Rebuke Undead class ability? Makes perfect sense.

Great point. You could UMD these restrictions, tho.

 

[Murazor]

That would be true if the DM were to allow that discount, but it does not make sense to do so. Swinging a Sword of Cutting Enemies into Tiny Little Pieces is niether a class-based nor an alignment-based ability. Casting arcane spells is class-based, casting spells with an Evil or Good descriptor is alignment-based.

Requiring a user to have a class feature, like Favored Enemy, for a weapon to gain the Bane ability against foes the user hates, or Sneak Attack, so it does extra damage when the target is flat-footed, are other examples of valid restrictions. How about a Mace of Disruption that only works if you have the Turn/Rebuke Undead class ability? Makes perfect sense.

Swinging the sword might not be, but I clearly mentioned him being:
* A Half-Orc, thus having the racial feature Orc Blooded
* Alignment CG, perhaps the sword is Holy and Axiomatic, or intelligent with a CG alignment
* and Barbarian, meaning he has access to Rage; for example the sword is more powerful through the Berserker enhancement (a +1 enhancement that gives +2 on to-hit/dmg while user rages)

All of these restrict, in some degree, how useful the weapon might be to a potential wielder. But I can't really justify any of those traits making the weapon a lot cheaper (except *perhaps* the Orc Blooded).

 

[ZuulMoG]

Alignment is an okay restriction, as noted. Race is one I'd shy away from, there's no reason a dwarf CAN'T construct a magic battleaxe for his human friend, nor why an elf CAN'T enchant a pair of boots and a cloak for his half-orc buddy.

The Berserker enhancement sound like something that a non-Raging user simply wouldn't gain access to, not something that would out-right prevent usage.

Restrictions based on things like sex (with some obvious if seldom-invoked exceptions), age, and name are simply ludicrous, and any GM can safely ignore them. Look to the drow for a great way for a GM to keep MI's out of player's hands long-term. If ever there was such an open case of GM fiat to magically equip his hordes with stuff that couldn't be used to upset his campaign, I've never seen it, and yet I never hear complaints about it.

...then again, maybe I'm listening to the wrong crowd.