Guilt Puppy
First Post
Salamander Napolean said:I gave them the smiting attack which works in a similar way to the sneak attack because I don't picture iconoclasts as being generally very sneaky. They don't have any stealth abilities, after all. But that does raise the question if sneak attack dice and smite dice are cumulative. That would make a mage-killing Icono/Rogue pretty overeffective.
Not necessarily. Look at it this way: A Rog2/Ico1 would have +1d6+1d4 if the circumstances were perfect. A Rog3 would have +2d6 in the same situation.Worst-case is only at second level, 1d6+1d4, which does beat out either a Rog2 or Ico2. After that, the gap between smite dice (every third level) is enough to make it an unprofitable exploit (but still a useful ability).
Really, my only "problem" with the class is that it doesn't fit so well as a core class (it's a very rare, specialized sort of character, at least in most campaigns), although the same basic abilities (scaled up appropriately) would work well for a prestige class. I believe there was a prestige class on a similar theme in Masters of the Wild, but really, this one makes a lot more sense to me.
Other possible abilities (not really looking to balance out anything, just trying to give you some more options) would be a bonus to saves versus magic (like the dwarf's racial bonus), and maybe even AC bonuses at later levels (perhaps a Wisdom bonus that can apply while wearing armor?)
I also think Detect Magic (and possibly even Dismissal) should operate as an extraordinary ability for this class... Mainly because it doesn't make sense for an anti-magic character to be hindered by an Antimagic Field. Really, I'd try to make as many of his abilities as possible (within the bounds of making sense) extraordinary... One spell-like ability they could also benefit from would be Antimagic Field (if you're feeling really dangerous, you could have them gain it as a permanent ability at level 20).
Anyway, it's a neat class. I think I'm going to write up my own prestige class variant, actually, because it would be interesting for it to show up in my campaign.
Edit: For the schwang of it, I tried re-working this class toward prestige, as I think anti-magic characters are interesting but the Forsaker class for MoW is both twinkie and impossible to play in a standard party.
Iconoclast
Prerequisites:
- Alignment: Same as patron deity; if no patron deity, any lawful
- Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 9 ranks, Spellcraft 5 ranks
- Feats: Power Attack, Sunder
- Special: The Iconoclast must be chosen by his deity or higher-ranking clergy of his deity to seek out and destroy magic in the world. Alternately, Iconoclasts may choose the path themselves, though still requiring the training and approval of a specific organization. See the Code of Conduct for more information on this.
Benefits:
- Hit Die: d8
- Skills: 4 + Int (Class skills are Alchemy, Bluff, Concentration, Gather Information, Intimidate, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), Scry, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft)
- BAB: 3/4 Iconoclast level (as Cleric)
- Saves: Good Will, good Reflex, good Fortitude (as Monk)
- Special (by level):
-- 1: Code of Conduct, Dispel Magic, Turn Unnatural
-- 2: Spell Resistance, Ignore Enhancement
-- 3: Dismissal 1/Day
-- 4: Detect Magic
-- 5: Curse Immunity
-- 6: Dismissal 2/Day, Negate Enhancement
-- 7: Greater Dispelling
-- 8: Reflect Spell
-- 9: Dismissal 3/Day
-- 10: Antimagic Field
Code of Conduct: The Iconoclast draws his powers from great discipline. In order to retain them, he must be viligant in his quest, and despiteful of magic.
The Iconoclast is not allowed by his Code of Conduct to cast spells or to use any magic items. Likewise, he cannot allow spells to be cast on himself -- he must always attempt Saving Throws, even against harmless spells cast by his allies. With regard to magic items, he may keep them in his possession so long as he gains no benefit from them, but he may not buy, sell, or trade them, as this assists in the proliferation of magic.
A purely accidental violation of this code causes the Iconoclast to lose access to his special abilities immediately. The return when 24 hours have past without another transgression. A willful violation, if commited for the sole reason of opposing a greater magic threat, results in the loss of these abilities for one week. A willful violation without such reasons, however, results in a permanent loss until he properly atones (not by the spell Atonement.). It is at the DM's discretion what constitutes atonement: By default, there is no way to atone for such a transgression.
For Iconoclasts working on the behalf of their patron deity, there are exceptions to these rules. First, they may accept healing spells (here defined as any spell which does nothing but negate the effects of something the Iconoclast has suffered beforehand; Cure spells, Remove Curse, et cetera) from and only from a servant of his patron deity. He may use magic items, provided they were created by servants of his patron deity with the express intent of being used to stop the flow of magic in the world. He may even continue to cast spells learned at previous levels, provided his spell-casting ability was acquired under the service of his patron deity, and his spell-casting is used to further his crusade against magic.
At the DM's discretion, Iconoclasts serving their own ideals may gain similar exceptions to those above, provided they fall within a carefully specified code of ethics. By default, there are no exceptions for deity-less characters.
Dispel Magic (Sp): Once per level per day, an Iconoclast may attempt to Dispel Magic, as the spell description, with the exception that he may not target an area with his spell. For the dispel check, consider his caster level to be his Iconoclast level plus his Charisma modifier (the maximum bonus of +10 still applies).
Turn Unnatural (Su): As the Cleric's ability to Turn Undead, except this ability may also target Outsiders, Constructs, and Summoned creatures.
Spell Resistance (Ex): Starting at second level, the Iconoclast gains spell resistance equal to 10 + his Iconoclast level + his Wisdom modifier.
Ignore Enhancement (Su): Starting at second level, when the Iconoclast attacks or is attacked, ignore all enhancement bonuses to the attack rolls, damage rolls, or armor class of either the Iconoclast or his opponent, unless the bonus is greater than the Iconoclast's Wisdom modifier. Note that this does not change the properties of a weapon aside from attack and damage rolls: A +1 weapon still has the same effect on creatures with damage resistance, except that its attack and damage bonuses will be one lower.
Dismissal (Sp): Starting at third level, the Iconoclast may emulate the effects of Dismissal once per day. The DC for the spell's saving through is 10 + the Iconoclast's level + his Charisma modifier. Starting at sixth and ninth level, he may cast Dismissal an additional time per day.
Detect Magic (Ex): Starting at fourth level, the Iconoclast is so sensitive to the presence of magic that he will notice it as though he were experiencing the spell Detect Magic at all times.
Curse Immunity (Ex): Starting at fifth level, the Iconoclast cannot be effected by any curse, or any effect which Remove Curse would dispel. (Spells such as geas/quest are ignored regardless of the caster's HD.)
Negate Enhancement (Su): Starting at sixth level, the Iconoclast's ability to ignore enhancements grows so strong that all enhancement bonuses subject to his Ignore Enhancement ability are taken into account again as enhancement penalties of the same magnitude.
Greater Dispelling (Sp): Starting at seventh level, the maximum bonus to the Iconoclast's dispel attempts is +20, not +10.
Reflect Spell (Sp): Starting at eighth level, the Iconoclast may use one of his Dispel Magic attempts to turn the effects of a spell back on its caster. This must be executed in the same manner as a counterspell, and the Iconoclast must succeed at a dispel check executed with a -2 penalty. If he fails, the spell functions normally.
Antimagic Field (Su): Starting at tenth level, the Iconoclast may generate an Antimagic Field at will. This ability functions as the spell Antimagic Field, with the exception that it does not cause summoned creatures to wink out, and the effect requires a full round of concentration to dismiss.
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Really, this class has more penalties than benefits, but it does have just enough cool things it can do to make it worthwhile. Plus, the contingencies in the Code of Conduct allow a careful player (with a somewhat generous DM) to ignore almost all the class's penalties... Even then, the Iconoclast doesn't really outshine anyone else (keep in mind that a sorceror or wizard of equal character level could do most of the same stuff, just less often, but with more versatility).
It's also loose enough with the Code of Conduct to actually be playable... IE, an Iconoclast could adventure with a wizard, although that wizard would have to either share his patron deity, or at least be up against a more powerful magic force along with the Iconoclast.
Also note that this class can stack just fine on top of spell-casting classes (hence the ability to dismiss the Antimagic Field), fitting in with the "magic belongs to my god and only my god" theme. Clerics make good Iconoclasts, as do Druids. Even Wizards and Sorcerors could operate as Iconoclasts if the conditions were right.
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