Core materials: Action Points and Insider

[KarinsDad]

I also dislike Action Points.

There are other mechanics that can be used to prevent a character from dying than a random bonus to a die roll (or replacement die roll).

The aspect of them I do not like is that the player decides to change the Laws of Probability in the game world. This feels like "cheating fate" to me.

No doubt about it. Bad rolls happen. I think PCs should have other "in character" resources to handle bad luck, not dice modifying resources. For example, a once per day Fireblast for a Wizard. He's in trouble, so the character decides to go to the well and use his big cannon.

Action Points are totally mechanical. It is not something the character does, it's something the player does which is the main reason I dislike them. I don't want the player going to the well, I want the character going to the well and doing it in character.

Another reason I do not like Action Points is that they typically do not apply to NPCs. I tend to have a problem with rules that apply to the PCs, but not the NPCs. JMO.

I suspect that if Action Points are part of the game, there will be a plethora of "special abilities" that will key off of that and there will really be no way to yank them out of the core system without a boatload of house rules.

AoOs have an "in character" aspect to them in addition to the mechanics problem that they are meant to address. Action Points do not. They are totally game mechanics related (and yes, I'm sure someone will come up with a "surge" type in character rationale for them, but it will be lame because of the lmited times they can be used rule).

I suspect that I will also have an issue with Second Wind as well. It too is heroic game mechanics, but really doesn't make sense in character.

"I feel better!"

uh huh

 

[pawsplay]

I suspect that I will also have an issue with Second Wind as well. It too is heroic game mechanics, but really doesn't make sense in character.

"I feel better!"

uh huh

Maybe if you had to rip off your shirt or something.

 

[an_idol_mind]

Oooooh, you mean players are rewarded for immersing themselves in the game through roleplaying. Yeah, that's an awful design. Simply dreadful. :\

There are a lot of players that feel uncomfortable taking the spotlight like that. It's not particularly fun for them when they're dragged into a role they don't like to be in just to earn a few bennies.

 

[charlesatan]

I am starting to get the feeling I'm the only one who heard the part of the podcast where it was stated clearly that "these aren't your dad's action points' and that they will serve a different function than they currently do.

I did and Ari did but our posts have been conveniently ignored. =)

Honestly, we can't make judgments for game mechanics we haven't seen but in general, I'm okay with giving players "a crutch".

 

[Felon]

I suspect that I will also have an issue with Second Wind as well. It too is heroic game mechanics, but really doesn't make sense in character.

"I feel better!"

uh huh

You speak as if second winds are a purely fictional concept. Boxers actually do get up off the mat and resume fighting, Soldiers actually do grit their teeth against the pain of severe wounds and pick their weapon back up. Injured people do refuse to go into shock and die. People actually do "feel better" through a sheer act of will. So, I'm not sure why you think it doesn't make sense in-character.

 

[Mallus]

There are a lot of players that feel uncomfortable taking the spotlight like that. It's not particularly fun for them when they're dragged into a role they don't like to be in just to earn a few bennies.

Firstly, there are other ways to earn Hero Points during an encounter (heck, I didn't realize the rules explicitly stated that you got them for role-playing until this thread, and I've been playing in a campaign for over a year...).

Secondly, players who are better gearheads and tacticians receive the benefits of their respective talents all the time. It's nice to have a d20 system that that finally offers concrete mechanical benefits to inveterate hams who enjoy different aspects of play.

Thirdly, and I'm really not trying to be snarky, but what are large numbers of people who don't like to 'take the spotlight' doing playing a game that primarily consists of talking? I could never quite figure that one out.

 

[Mallus]

You speak as if second winds are a purely fictional concept. Boxers actually do get up off the mat and resume fighting, Soldiers actually do grit their teeth against the pain of severe wounds and pick their weapon back up. Injured people do refuse to go into shock and die. People actually do "feel better" through a sheer act of will. So, I'm not sure why you think it doesn't make sense in-character.

Exactly. You could call the ability something like 'adrenaline surge'.

Maybe this effect would go down easier it came in the form of a potion that cost 100gp a pop...

 

[Clavis]

Action Points are wrong for a game that already has escalating hit points and attack bonuses to simulate luck in battle, and saving throws to represent luck in everything else. If a DM sees a good player getting a seriously unlucky break from the dice, the DM SHOULD FUDGE THEIR ROLLS TO SAVE THE PC. That's what DM screens are for, so the players never know if you're fudging rolls or not. Of course, the players must believe that you're an evil heartless bastard that WANTS to destroy their characters. This way, they feel good when they are miraculously saved.

The whole Action Points thing strikes me as a security blanket for people who don't want to expose their imaginary characters to any real risk. Ultimately, they'll make the game boring because all thrills come from the perception of risk and danger.

Bad players deserve PCs who die. Good players don't. And yes, the DM is the person who should make that determination. The focus should be on maker better, more confident and empowered DMs, not adding yet another mechanic to further undermine the DM's role.

 

[Hussar]

Action Points are wrong for a game that already has escalating hit points and attack bonuses to simulate luck in battle, and saving throws to represent luck in everything else. If a DM sees a good player getting a seriously unlucky break from the dice, the DM SHOULD FUDGE THEIR ROLLS TO SAVE THE PC. That's what DM screens are for, so the players never know if you're fudging rolls or not. Of course, the players must believe that you're an evil heartless bastard that WANTS to destroy their characters. This way, they feel good when they are miraculously saved.

The whole Action Points thing strikes me as a security blanket for people who don't want to expose their imaginary characters to any real risk. Ultimately, they'll make the game boring because all thrills come from the perception of risk and danger.

Bad players deserve PCs who die. Good players don't. And yes, the DM is the person who should make that determination. The focus should be on maker better, more confident and empowered DMs, not adding yet another mechanic to further undermine the DM's role.

Wow. That has to be some of the worst DMing advice I've seen in a long time. DM's should cheat to save PC's, but, PC's should never have the ability to save their own hides. Whoa.

Sorry, I play entirely in the open. No Wall of Death for me. My players see 100% of my rolls, either when I make them or afterwards. I left that sort of DMing behind years ago and haven't missed it in the least.

 

[Minicol]

I do not consider this a DM-friendly move. I can already hear players demanding items in their game because "Wizards" says that it is core. I find this highly annoying. DMs run the games that sell products. Why make our lives more difficult?

A change of edition is not very DM friendly in any event, as most players I know tend to rely on the DM to buy all the rules, and sit cosy without spending a $. Most also expect the DM to teach them all the rules without making any effort to learn them.

So while we're at it, let's push the DMs even further. After all, those who want the edition jump have to be pretty motivated anyways, and they will be able to handle it.