Core Rules PDF's errata'd yet?

[JoeGKushner]

The thing th seems odd is that there seems to be a need to typesett a PDF i nthe first place.

OMG! The PDF PHB does not match up with the printed book!

It just seems that despite wanting to go more electronic, that they're bound and determined to stay electronic only when it means the least amount of work that matches the physical product.

 

[justanobody]

The thing th seems odd is that there seems to be a need to typesett a PDF i nthe first place.

OMG! The PDF PHB does not match up with the printed book!

It just seems that despite wanting to go more electronic, that they're bound and determined to stay electronic only when it means the least amount of work that matches the physical product.

Well typesetting really just means screwing around with text in any medium, so each post you make is typeset by you with what ever options you include such as: bold, italics, underlined, red, etc.

I agree that a physical book that will see no future printings doesn't have to be perfect in PDF form, but I think the PDF is what the printers use to make the physical books.

Someone know anything about those illegal copies to begin with when 4th came out? Got a link to any threads about them? I recall reading some place Scott Rouse said they were leaked form the printer and had some kind of printing markings on them or something.

All I can figure that out to mean is swatches of colors somewhere on the page to make sure the printed page ends up having the correct colors, and each page has its own master color chart on it in a way that has to be cut out with the guillotine before/when the book is bound.

So the PDF seems to be where the physical books come from. Which is why I would think it more important to keep them updated in case a future printing is needed. Sadly most people seem to follow the philosophy of "why do today what you can put off until tomorrow", and end up having to do everything last minute.

I don't think they fully grasp the concept of going electronic/digital as they have shown to have too few people to handle the digital needs. Including, before too long, people at work all hours of the day on shifts to handle problems, not just 9-5 Mon-Thur, and 9-noon on friday.

 

[malraux]

So the PDF seems to be where the physical books come from. Which is why I would think it more important to keep them updated in case a future printing is needed. Sadly most people seem to follow the philosophy of "why do today what you can put off until tomorrow", and end up having to do everything last minute.

But that's the equivalent of flushing money down the toilet. First, you're paying someone to do something that won't see a return. Second, you're passing up the opportunity to have that person work on something that will make you money. Its not like WotC has extra employees doing nothing. If they spend say 20 person hours integrating errata, thats a delay in getting the DDI stuff posted, or the next book to the publisher.

 

[justanobody]

But that's the equivalent of flushing money down the toilet. First, you're paying someone to do something that won't see a return. Second, you're passing up the opportunity to have that person work on something that will make you money. Its not like WotC has extra employees doing nothing. If they spend say 20 person hours integrating errata, thats a delay in getting the DDI stuff posted, or the next book to the publisher.

Why update the DDI compendium monthly? Because people buy it monthly, for now.

For those people paying for a year worth there is no new income to support that monthly update to it.

But there is good reason to do so, and likewise updating an existing digital product such as a PDF to include proper and correct rules has that same reason.

Those people who bought it feel better about their purchase and are more likely to make more PDF purchases. Also the people they tell about the PDF updates being constantly up-to-date will be more likely to buy them.

You get the added bonus of having the next printing of a physical book ready in advance for the company when the time comes to make another print run of the book.

Otherwise why update anything in the digital areas, if not updating them all?

You cannot very well update the books already printed and people have already bought, but you CAN the digital ones. Granted this would cause some problems for ONEBOOKSHELF and the PDF sellers under them as they would lose the work done on the bookmarks as they are not included or needed for printing purposes of the physical book and would require doing over for a new PDF. Unless I just haven't found out how to copy bookmarks form one PDF to another, then they just take doing that and make some minor updates to the bookmarks for added pages.

The same can be said for why create 4th edition at all for 2 years when you weren't making any money on it and you could have been making 3rd edition the entire time that was generating revenue.

The reason is the same, speculation. Will the updates make money for the PDFs? Will the book ever be republished and need them? does someone already get paid to make the update PDFs? Why are the errata listed as PDFs rather than HTML or text files?

This doesn't mean that you update each time errata is made, that would have to be decided on how much the errata is and how quick it can be done. But they should all be updated at some point on some schedule, otherwise the PDF will be worthless as there intended purpose to offer a digital, space saving media that is quickly searchable. The DDI Compendium does that and its cheaper. What incentive is there to buy an obsolete PDF file whose content is still being updated with errata, but the PDF does not include in ANY manner any of this errata?

Also the people working on DDI should NOT be the same people working on the PDFs. This is where a problem lies in the system by having too few people work on too many things. It seems to be barely working as the Gleemax cancellation announcement was intended to focus people on things because the focus was lost on making the system work.

Keep focusing more until you get the clear picture of what doesn't work, if that is the case. Should Diedre(sp) be working on DDI or updating PDFs?

Does the DDI team do anything with the printing department? I hope not, as they should be different group working for the same goal, and getting the same materials to publish in their forms of media from James, Mike, Dave, Rob, Andy, Scott, etc*...

*Sorry I don't know every designers name off the top of my head, just put down the ones that popped into mind first, so not intending to leave anyone out on purpose.

So there is a reason if not a few to keep the PDFs updated IF they are what gets sent to the printers for actual book publishing, and WotC does a LOT of actual print material and needs the manpower to get it done and may need more than it has to make sure quality and sanity of the publishing/typesetting/etc teams is maintained.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I guess I"m seeing it in a different light.

THe PDF NEVER needs to match the printed book.

Companies don't take advantage of the medium.

For example, want people to buy the electronic PDF of the PHB information in droves? Arrange is so that each class is in it's own section and it's powers are done up in card form from the get go.

Same information as the PHB, just using formatting made possible through the electornic medium.

Taking advantage of the medium means just that. Taking advantage of what it has to offer.

Most comapnies however just do an electronic publish.

Well typesetting really just means screwing around with text in any medium, so each post you make is typeset by you with what ever options you include such as: bold, italics, underlined, red, etc.

I agree that a physical book that will see no future printings doesn't have to be perfect in PDF form, but I think the PDF is what the printers use to make the physical books.

Someone know anything about those illegal copies to begin with when 4th came out? Got a link to any threads about them? I recall reading some place Scott Rouse said they were leaked form the printer and had some kind of printing markings on them or something.

All I can figure that out to mean is swatches of colors somewhere on the page to make sure the printed page ends up having the correct colors, and each page has its own master color chart on it in a way that has to be cut out with the guillotine before/when the book is bound.

So the PDF seems to be where the physical books come from. Which is why I would think it more important to keep them updated in case a future printing is needed. Sadly most people seem to follow the philosophy of "why do today what you can put off until tomorrow", and end up having to do everything last minute.

I don't think they fully grasp the concept of going electronic/digital as they have shown to have too few people to handle the digital needs. Including, before too long, people at work all hours of the day on shifts to handle problems, not just 9-5 Mon-Thur, and 9-noon on friday.

 

[justanobody]

I guess I"m seeing it in a different light.

THe PDF NEVER needs to match the printed book.

Companies don't take advantage of the medium.

For example, want people to buy the electronic PDF of the PHB information in droves? Arrange is so that each class is in it's own section and it's powers are done up in card form from the get go.

Same information as the PHB, just using formatting made possible through the electornic medium.

Taking advantage of the medium means just that. Taking advantage of what it has to offer.

Most comapnies however just do an electronic publish.

Oh I agree the digital books need not match the physical ones, but am going under my impression that the leaked books from back when were leaked form the printer and PDF may be the medium used to get form WotC to the printer to be printed. So killing two birds with one stone they then crop out those things that only the printer needs and then place the PDF up as a book for sale in digital format as this cropped master print copy in PDF form.

With this as my understanding, it makes sense to me for them to not have to make a second PDF, or actual book, for digital versions of it which saves money, and SHOULD save costs and lower consumer prices.

So while they could, I doubt it will happen that they will, make a PDF only version of the book format for the medium in which it is intended to use, but use the same files for both printing and digital versions as a money saver.

All the more reason if they are cutting so many corners to save money, they could spare a little waste to update the digital books for the price being charged for them.

PDF copies could have SO many advantages over the physical books that it is ridiculous and could attract so many customers. Your printable page power cards for example. They would have never had to make real power cards and people could have bought the digital book and printed them, or photocopied the pages from their books, and this would have saved money on developing the cards that are supposed to come out in 2009 for Martial Powers, etc. Conserving not only the resources to develop the same thing multiple times, but making something that would give incentive for people to buy the digital books.

I know people will still want professional printed cards on cardstock...get it done at Kinko's or something. Cost will likely be the same as the cards for Martial Powers powers set.

But we are just the little people that don't know a thing about business. I am just cheap and this most cost effectively when doing things and businesses always want to save money by spending more on things....

Maybe they will sue that idea for future books.

Appendix J: Powers
Permission granted to print this page for personal use only.

Viola!, physical and digital book buyers get benefit, and errata should fit on the powers preformatted card spaces anyway.

It just seems sloppy not to update one product that is a major driving force to bridge the gap to digital media and only update the ones that get future revisions into physical print.

I guess we are just alone in this thinking process.

 

[malraux]

I think WotC's goal for non-traditional format usage is the DDI stuff.

 

[justanobody]

I think WotC's goal for non-traditional format usage is the DDI stuff.

Huh?

So future PDFs would not even be put out such as PHB2, DMG2, etc?

You can only get the Dragon and Dungeon in digital, but everything else only in print?

That isn't really embracing the digital media at all.

 

[malraux]

Huh?

So future PDFs would not even be put out such as PHB2, DMG2, etc?

You can only get the Dragon and Dungeon in digital, but everything else only in print?

That isn't really embracing the digital media at all.

No, the pdf sales will only be effective parity with the the physical books. But all the sorts of things JoeGKushner talked about like pregened power cards, sortable orders of things, etc, will appear in the DDI, not the rpgnow store.

 

[justanobody]

No, the pdf sales will only be effective parity with the the physical books. But all the sorts of things JoeGKushner talked about like pregened power cards, sortable orders of things, etc, will appear in the DDI, not the rpgnow store.

But they could aid in future books for errata concerns. If you have a card design power then you have a set space allotted for each powers rules.

this way when you have errata it is made based on writing the new rules out to also fit within that car size and space for the power.

Some powers will have leftover space, so if you don't make them as actual cards, you will have enough space on the page for plenty of errata to any power needing it.

Again this does little for non-power errata where text just runs and runs in larger chunks, but it could possibly help.

I also think the PDF market would be bigger if fully utilized like suggested to where it was as useful, including errata, and economical for the purchaser.

Also the DDI doesn't replace the need for the books. All the rules will not be there, I just feel it. Plus you don't get any of the artwork and the DDI is not printer friendly with its background images and colors. So one may want the Adventure Vault, and want it for all time via PDF rather than renting portions of it through DDI, or needing DDI in order to get the correct and up to date rules for a book.

If done right there is a chance the PDF sales and number of players that the PDFs can create could make the game gains tons of new players that may have never existed before, because the books were just too much to spend for.

Updated with errata means the PDFs are more useful since you don't need two sources like the PDF errata pages, and the physical books for when you may not be able to use the DDI in locations where there is no online access like a local convention or something like even a camping trip.

I do not wish to get into PDF use and camping without electricity, but it is possible....not to mention armed services where they can't just plug in to unsecured lines with their computers.

Oh well. I will wait to see if/when the PDFs are worth buying/updated prior to purchasing any of them.