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<blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8177171" data-attributes="member: 57383"><p>So I was going through the various kinds of Great Cats in D&D and noticed Echohawk's Index included Minimal versions of them.</p><p></p><p>Checking the Creature Catalog's Minimal Template I found it had a couple of problems.</p><p></p><p>Firstly, the Hit Dice entry cuts off half way through the second sentence "The number of hit dice is 1/4 of the base creature, rounded down. If the base creature had 2-3 HD".</p><p></p><p>Presumably that ought to continue something along the lines "If the base creature had 2-3 HD the minimal has 1/2 HD, if the base creature has a single Hit Dice the minimal has 1/4 HD."</p><p></p><p>Secondly, the 3E rules tend to have Hit Dice be proportional to <em>length</em>, with an increase of one size category doubling the dimensions (e.g. Medium creatures are 4 to 8 feet, Large creatures are 8 to 16 feet) and <strong><em>doubling the Hit Dice</em></strong>. So why does the minimal (which is half-size) have one-quarter the Hit Dice? Shouldn't it either be one-half Hit Dice or (my preference) still be one-quarter Hit Dice but be <strong>two</strong> size categories smaller and therefore be 25% the dimensions instead of 50%.</p><p></p><p>Thirdly, there are a couple of extraneous terms that need removing, the "Special Attacks: Attacks:" should be "Attacks:" and the "Special Qualities: Face/Reach:" should be "Face/Reach:".</p><p></p><p>A lesser point is that the 1E version of the Minimal has increased resistance to Poison and Death effects.</p><p></p><p>Quoting <em>Monster Manual II (1983)</em>: "Since they are the products of magic they gain +2 on all saving throws and gain the saving throw of the full-sized mammal vs. death and poison. They gain +4 to saving throws vs. any spell that will charm them, including the druid spell <em>animal friendship</em>."</p><p></p><p>However, this ability is missing from the 2E <em>Monstrous Compendium</em> version, while the Creature Catalog template has "Additionally, they receive a +2 to save against poison to help them against poisonous predators" which, if nothing else is a bit confusingly worded. Wouldn't it be better to say the bonus increases to +4 for saves against poison? However, I'd also prefer if some greater reduction was substituted - maybe one-quarter damage from poison and death effects (with death spells treating them as if they had quadruple their actual Hit Dice)?</p><p></p><p>When we get around to doing a revised 3.5 Template for the CC I'd like to clear up those issues.</p><p></p><p>Oh, I just remembered another issue. The CC Minimal template's <strong>Creating a Minimal</strong> section starts: "Minimal" is a template that can be added to any normal mammalian animal which is medium-sized or larger.</p><p></p><p>However, the AD&D Minimal entry includes stats for Baboon, Badger, Wild Dog, Hyena and Warthog which are all Small sized in AD&D.</p><p></p><p>There's also the Lynx, which oddly enough does not appear to have official AD&D stats for - the only entries are for the Giant Lynx, with is a sapient oversized version. They are listed as "HD 1/4, 1 attack, 1 damage" which suggests the base animal is 1 Hit Dice and has a single attack that does maybe 1d4 or 1d6 damage.</p><p></p><p>Note that Baboons and Hyenas are Medium sized in the 3E SRD, not Small as they are in AD&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cleon, post: 8177171, member: 57383"] So I was going through the various kinds of Great Cats in D&D and noticed Echohawk's Index included Minimal versions of them. Checking the Creature Catalog's Minimal Template I found it had a couple of problems. Firstly, the Hit Dice entry cuts off half way through the second sentence "The number of hit dice is 1/4 of the base creature, rounded down. If the base creature had 2-3 HD". Presumably that ought to continue something along the lines "If the base creature had 2-3 HD the minimal has 1/2 HD, if the base creature has a single Hit Dice the minimal has 1/4 HD." Secondly, the 3E rules tend to have Hit Dice be proportional to [I]length[/I], with an increase of one size category doubling the dimensions (e.g. Medium creatures are 4 to 8 feet, Large creatures are 8 to 16 feet) and [B][I]doubling the Hit Dice[/I][/B]. So why does the minimal (which is half-size) have one-quarter the Hit Dice? Shouldn't it either be one-half Hit Dice or (my preference) still be one-quarter Hit Dice but be [B]two[/B] size categories smaller and therefore be 25% the dimensions instead of 50%. Thirdly, there are a couple of extraneous terms that need removing, the "Special Attacks: Attacks:" should be "Attacks:" and the "Special Qualities: Face/Reach:" should be "Face/Reach:". A lesser point is that the 1E version of the Minimal has increased resistance to Poison and Death effects. Quoting [I]Monster Manual II (1983)[/I]: "Since they are the products of magic they gain +2 on all saving throws and gain the saving throw of the full-sized mammal vs. death and poison. They gain +4 to saving throws vs. any spell that will charm them, including the druid spell [I]animal friendship[/I]." However, this ability is missing from the 2E [I]Monstrous Compendium[/I] version, while the Creature Catalog template has "Additionally, they receive a +2 to save against poison to help them against poisonous predators" which, if nothing else is a bit confusingly worded. Wouldn't it be better to say the bonus increases to +4 for saves against poison? However, I'd also prefer if some greater reduction was substituted - maybe one-quarter damage from poison and death effects (with death spells treating them as if they had quadruple their actual Hit Dice)? When we get around to doing a revised 3.5 Template for the CC I'd like to clear up those issues. Oh, I just remembered another issue. The CC Minimal template's [B]Creating a Minimal[/B] section starts: "Minimal" is a template that can be added to any normal mammalian animal which is medium-sized or larger. However, the AD&D Minimal entry includes stats for Baboon, Badger, Wild Dog, Hyena and Warthog which are all Small sized in AD&D. There's also the Lynx, which oddly enough does not appear to have official AD&D stats for - the only entries are for the Giant Lynx, with is a sapient oversized version. They are listed as "HD 1/4, 1 attack, 1 damage" which suggests the base animal is 1 Hit Dice and has a single attack that does maybe 1d4 or 1d6 damage. Note that Baboons and Hyenas are Medium sized in the 3E SRD, not Small as they are in AD&D. [/QUOTE]
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