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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cleon" data-source="post: 8374185" data-attributes="member: 57383">Cave Lord Proposed CorrectionsOkay, in stat block order.To account for the low speed (originally 9), I favour giving it Hide armour like an ogre and the same 30 ft. base speed as a goblin. That'd increase the AC to 20, the same as the SRD Hill Giant. Conveniently the Dragon #256 Cave Lord has AC 3 like a 2E AD&D Hill Giant.Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares); base speed 30 ft.Armor Class: 20 (–1 size, +3 Dex, +5 natural, +3 hide armor), touch 12, flat-footed 17Or we could just drop the Speed to 20 ft., but that isn't my preferred solution.Speed #2: 20 ft. (4 squares)Since Cave Lords use weapons not claws and fangs, it seems simplest to just give them the standard armament of a goblin or bugbear:Attack: Morningstar +9 melee (2d6+9) or javelin +6 ranged (1d8+6)Full Attack: Morningstar +9 melee (2d6+9) or javelin +6 ranged (1d8+6)The cave lord doesn't have the Rend special attack. I'm inclined to give it some special ability to command goblins to make up for that.Special Attacks: —Special Qualities: Caveborn, damage reduction 10/slashing or piercing, darkvision 60 ft., goblin suzerain, low-light visionThe Intelligence, Charisma and probably Wisdom should be higher. The Dragonlance SAGA stats give it an Intellect of 6 (Reason/Perception) and an Essence of 8 (Spirit/Presence - the equivalent to Charisma). Human PCs have a range from 1 to 9, so a 6 is above average Intelligence and an 8 is very high - the same as SAGA's Sirine, Huldrefolk, Behir, Aurak Draconian and a standard Young Dragon as well as many incorporeal undead including the Ghost, Spectre and Wraith. Let's say Charisma 15 like the SRD Wraith, an Intelligence score with a +1 ability modifier (so Int 12 or 13) and a similar score in Wisdom. It seems appropriate to put the higher number in Intelligence since they're described as crafty buggers!Abilities: Str 23, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 15That'll increase its Skills and Saves, I'd invest the nine extra skill points from its +1 Int modifier in Diplomacy, Listen and Spot (3 SPs apiece):Saves: Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +3Skills: Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7 (+15 vs smaller goblins), Disguise +2 (+4 acting), Intimidate +7 (+15 vs smaller goblins), Listen +7, Move Silently +7, Spot +727 SPs: Bluff 5, Diplomacy 0+3, Disguise 0, Intimidate 3, Listen 3+3, Move Silently 4, Spot 3+3As it no longer has natural attacks well need to swap Multiattack for something else. I favour Combat Reflexes to reflect the description of it being disturbingly fast in combat:Feats: Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Power AttackNot sure about the Advancement by size, that seems a bit odd for a giant or humanoid. We could cut that and only have character-class advancement. However I'm inclined to keep it and just have them grow bigger. In either case, I'd like to tweak the height and weight description.With size advancement:Advancement: 7-8 HD (Large), 9-10 HD (Huge) or by character classA typical cave lord is 9 to 10 feet tall and extremely fat, weighing 1,200 to 2,000 pounds – without the blubber it’d be about the mass of an ogre (600 to 700 pounds). Some goblin giants grow to heights of 12 feet or more and can weigh at least 1½ tons.With class-only:Advancement: By character classA typical cave lord is 9 to 10 feet tall and extremely fat, weighing 1,200 to 2,000 pounds – without the blubber it’d be about the mass of an ogre (600 to 700 pounds). Some goblin giants grow to heights of up to 12 feet and might weigh 1½ tons or more.Oh, and I reckon we should have the smarter ones learn Common or Undercommon:Cave lords speak Giant and Goblin; those with Intelligence scores of 14 or higher will usually also speak Common or Undercommon.For the "some special ability to command goblins" I propose:Goblin Suzerain (Ex): [Version #1] A cave lord has a +8 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against any goblinoid whose size category is smaller than its own. It also has a +4 racial bonus on the saving throw DC of spells and spell-like abilities of the Enchantment school or with the Fear descriptor it casts on such smaller goblinoids.Upon reflection, I prefer.Goblin Suzerain (Ex): [Version #2] A cave lord has a +8 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against any goblinoid whose size category and Hit Dice are both less than its own. It also has a +4 racial bonus on the saving throw DC of spells and spell-like abilities of the Enchantment school or with the Fear descriptor it casts on such lesser goblinoids.Skills: Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7 (+15 vs lesser goblins), Disguise +2 (+4 acting), Intimidate +7 (+15 vs lesser goblins), Listen +7, Move Silently +7, Spot +7</blockquote>

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