D&D 5E CoS and Clerics

[pukunui]

Hi all,

I am currently DMing Curse of Strahd, and one of my players has indicated that he'd like to swap out his mystic/wizard for a cleric, most likely either a cleric of the Morninglord (light domain) or of Kelemvor (death or grave domain). In other words, a cleric built for combating undead. The group found the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind some time ago but have been unable to use it since they have neither a cleric nor a paladin in the party.

Before I give him the go ahead, I wanted to seek advice on how to handle such a character in this campaign. I am concerned that such a character will make things too easy and perhaps detract from the gothic horror feel of the campaign. This is my first experience running a Ravenloft game, and the PCs have been having a pretty easy time of it so far. I don't want to make things even easier for them.

I have had some experience playing a cleric in CoS myself. My character was a sun soul monk who found religion in Barovia and ended up with two levels of light cleric. The group let her have both the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind and the Icon of Ravenloft. Those two items are very powerful on their own and practically OP when used together - 60 feet of sunlight and a 30-foot protection from evil and good aura make for a mighty powerful combo when fighting Strahd and his vampire minions. (Perhaps I should just remove the Icon of Ravenloft from the game ...)

If you DMed a CoS game with a light cleric PC in it, how did you handle it? How did you maintain the tropes of the genre? What tactics did you have Strahd employ to counter the cleric's power?

I feel like a death cleric would be a little more manageable, aside from their ability to ignore necrotic resistance, whereas a grave cleric might be even worse in my case than a light cleric, since abilities like Circle of Mortality and Sentinel at Death's Door would make it even harder for PCs to die. (We've had only one PC death in seven sessions, and that's *with* me using some of the slower healing variant rules and them not having a healer!)

Anyone got any advice?


Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Jonathan

 

[SwivSnapshot]

No advice, just observations.

I am running CoS now and one of the PC's was a life cleric and an acolyte of Lathander. His class abilities didn't appear to be game breaking in any way, but did cause him to be the focus of a lot of the aggression.

Fortunately, the player has a good sense of humor, even after being killed by vampires, his body burned up by his team when they set the building on fire to destroy the spawn, and then waking up as a revenant, naked in a freshly dug grave in Vallaki.

Yay, players!!!

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

There isn't much about Light or Grave Clerics than make them a lot worse than any other cleric in Ravenloft. I recall quite the discussion when the Grave cleric came out because people were disappointed that it wasn't a specialised and powerful undead-destroyer.
All clerics have ready access to radiant damage, Undead turning and capabilities that make their allies much harder to kill. Its practically the job description.

The issue lies more with the items perhaps. But remember that Strahd can lead the party a merry chase around the land and then the castle, all the while wearing down the group. He has minions who aren't excessively affected by sunlight who he can send to try to take the items away from the group etc.

To be frank, I would have thought that a Sun Soul monk, with at-will radiant damage would be much nastier than a cleric, particularly if you're slowing down the rest system.
What level is the party?

 

[Savage Wombat]

I didn't have a light cleric, but I did have a druid who used Moonbeam constantly. The bard had Blinding Smite, and of course we had a paladin, so there was a lot of radiant damage slinging around. It definitely changes things.

Mostly I made sure the party was paranoid about how Strahd and his minions would attempt to counter such tactics, or even take the magic items away.

 

[ad_hoc]

I am currently DMing CoS and have both a cleric and a paladin in the party. They're fine.

2 main points:

The items are the key for the characters. Collecting and finding them in the campaign is hard. Their ability to defeat Strahd relies on having those items. If they manage to get all of them they should have an easier time.

That said, Strahd knows this. He has been spying on them. Like it has been mentioned, he will do his best to remove them. As his charm is very hard to resist (he will target the character with the weakest save) he can use it to have a character in the party remove one or more of them. Also, until they get to the final showdown location his hit and run tactics will be very hard to deal with.

If the PCs can acquire all of the items and get to the final showdown location quickly, they deserve to have an easy time with the final confrontation.

 

[hastur_nz]

In retrospect, I'd remove the the Icon of Ravenloft. It's not a 'prophesied' item, it's very powerful, it's easy to get hold of, and to be honest its placement in the Chapel makes no sense whatsoever, something I feel should have been changed when the Castle was updated to 5e. I never really noticed that it was so powerful, or placed so weirdly, until it was too late.
Trying to limit what sort of PC a player can have is not good for the players fun, IMO.
Whereas no-one will know, or care, if you remove an item before they ever find it.

 

[pukunui]

There isn't much about Light or Grave Clerics than make them a lot worse than any other cleric in Ravenloft. I recall quite the discussion when the Grave cleric came out because people were disappointed that it wasn't a specialised and powerful undead-destroyer.

My concern with the Grave cleric is that it makes killing PCs a lot harder, since a Grave cleric can cast spare the dying as a bonus action, max out any healing they give a dying comrade, and turn a crit into a normal hit. Plus they have revivify on tap from 5th level (assuming they can afford it, of course).

To be frank, I would have thought that a Sun Soul monk, with at-will radiant damage would be much nastier than a cleric, particularly if you're slowing down the rest system.

That wasn't my experience. Yes, radiant damage shorts out a vampire's regeneration for a round, but I found that the holy symbol's powers were more useful - paralyzing vampires allows your friends to score lots of crits against them, and you can impose disadvantage on their turn undead saves, and you can hit them with sunlight. Using the icon to impose disadvantage on their attack rolls against you and your friends is just icing on the cake at that point.

What level is the party?

They are 6th level currently but will probably hit 7th after the next session.

The items are the key for the characters. Collecting and finding them in the campaign is hard.

Depends on where they are, though. The holy symbol was the first thing they got, and they got it only two or three sessions in.

That said, Strahd knows this. He has been spying on them. Like it has been mentioned, he will do his best to remove them. As his charm is very hard to resist (he will target the character with the weakest save) he can use it to have a character in the party remove one or more of them. Also, until they get to the final showdown location his hit and run tactics will be very hard to deal with.

Yes, he has already taken the sun sword off them. As for charming him, that's another instance where the icon is overpowered, as its protection from evil and good aura makes it so that Strahd can't charm anyone within 30 feet of it.

In retrospect, I'd remove the the Icon of Ravenloft. It's not a 'prophesied' item, it's very powerful, it's easy to get hold of, and to be honest its placement in the Chapel makes no sense whatsoever, something I feel should have been changed when the Castle was updated to 5e. I never really noticed that it was so powerful, or placed so weirdly, until it was too late.

I think what I might do is just remove the aura. The rest of the icon's powers aren't such a big deal. I do like the idea that the chapel is still a holy place and is a somewhat safe place for the PCs to rest. (Not actually safe but safer than anywhere else in the castle.)

If I get rid of the icon's aura, then having it still be in the chapel makes a bit more sense. Maybe Strahd just can't be bothered moving it, or he doesn't like going into the chapel, or he leaves it there as bait to give adventurers false hope, because he knows he can still defeat them even when they've got the icon.

 

[Savage Wombat]

In retrospect, I'd remove the the Icon of Ravenloft. It's not a 'prophesied' item, it's very powerful, it's easy to get hold of, and to be honest its placement in the Chapel makes no sense whatsoever, something I feel should have been changed when the Castle was updated to 5e. I never really noticed that it was so powerful, or placed so weirdly, until it was too late.
Trying to limit what sort of PC a player can have is not good for the players fun, IMO.
Whereas no-one will know, or care, if you remove an item before they ever find it.

In case it's useful to anyone, my nerf to the Icon was this: it's a large, heavy metal statuette. (My memory says fifteen pounds, but check the book.) In order to use the Prot. from Evil effect, the statue had to be out and visible - so the player with it was either holding it with both hands, preventing combat and spellcasting, or had to pull it out (using an action) and put it down. Which leaves it vulnerable to enemies if the players aren't careful.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

In my game I currently have a paladin of the Morning Lord who started out as an Oathbreaker and is now Oath of the Ancients (after much deliberation between all three phb oaths, I am tying his nature shift into being attuned to the megaliths near the windmill). I also have a storm cleric of Thor and a knowledge cleric of Amaunator. The former is likely to get an equivalent of When before the campaign is over and the latter just signed up for an eye of venca (albeit slightly nerfed as I don't like how the boons/detriment work with artifacts).

Needless to say, the party is well equipped to fight undead. To help put with this, I have done a couple things. First, I've given Strahd a certain eye and apendage hating magic sword in his armory as a response to the player opting to use it on him. Second, I've let slip in the past that Strahd would be sort of responding to them. They know he likes to toy with his prey and I warned them going in making a straight "anti-undead" party would mean he's more likely to rise to their challenge and take the kid gloves off. Since then, I've played him ruthlessly.

Remember that a fair fight with Strahd is a dead vampire. He knows this. Strahd is a hit and run type of fighter, have him bring minions, or lure the party into them as he "runs away", or ambush the party as they wander around, charming the fighter and disappearing without them even realizing it, or fireball in and then flying away as a bat. It's about wearing them down, which *will* add to the sense of dread as party resources dwindle. My last encounter with them had the party capable of dealing nearly 80+ damage a round to him with radiant every turn (the sunlight and sacred flame). The party is 6th level and only has the symbol so far. The trick is to use the terrain and his legendary actions/saves. Have him move very often. Sunlight and spirit guardians doesn't help if he moves off his turn out of them, and said movement doesn't provoke. Strahd is VERY fast if he wants to be. I had him fight them in the monastery, and gas form up the chimney to recover, only to come back full health in a few rounds. In his castle he can do this through the buildings very walls, floors, and ceilings! Do NOT run him as a tank and spank health sponge, because he isn't.

As for helping characters fit the tone of the game, that is something to work with your players on. I request mine help choose characters that fit classic horror tropes (think frankenstein, wolfman, dracula, lovecraft, etc.). Hell, requesting the party model their characters off of the cast of Dracula is perfectly reasonable because this practically *is* that story.

For my party, Paladin is very much based on Belmont from Castlevania, down to him having a magic whip (that is likely to fuse with the sunblade). He just got the symbol of raven kind a few sessions ago.

The cleric of Thor is a bit of an odd duck, admittedly, but I've kind of been lucky enough to have that player work with me to keep the tone of the game. He's kind of been the deliberate fish out of water, despite ironically being the most likely to be "from" a world like Ravenloft (I'm implying that it *is* an alternative Transylvania in my game), albeit from a different region/time period. He's had a few silly moments, but over all there haven't been many issues.

The cleric of Amaunator doesn't fit a horror trope from his character persay, but has instead kind of been helping reinforce the theme of Barovia being a place of corruption and Evil. The other cleric has kind of helped with this as well (Loki), but I've made it clear there are bigger problems than Strahd in the lands of Barovia. The very land itself is cursed by them.

 

[pukunui]

I just realized that I meant to post this here, not in my other CoS thread:

Was just looking at the original Ravenloft module. I found this admonition rather humorous: "You must play Strahd in the same way the players play their characters. Study this NPC as carefully as the players study their characters."

I don't know about you guys, but my players tend not to study their characters carefully. I regularly have to remind them about various things their characters can or can't do.

On a different note, I was looking at I6 to see what it had to say about the various artifacts. The icon is "a small carving of the purest silver" that is 12" tall. It grants a +4 bonus to turn undead attempts and can heal 3d6+3 hit points 1/day when used by a cleric of good alignment. Note that it doesn't tell you what the statue depicts.

In comparison, the 3.5 version of the icon from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft is a 12" statue of a raven. It can be used as a holy symbol, improving the wielder's ability to turn undead. It also has a 1/day healing ability (this time 3d8+10) that can be used by any good character capable of casting divine spells.

Note that neither of those versions have an anti-undead aura. That appears to be something unique to the 5e version, as is the 1/day use of augury. With that in mind, I think I shall have no qualms about removing the protection from evil and good aura.