D&D 5E [CoS] Can powerful items be removed from Barovia? (minor spoilers)

[GlassJaw]

And more specifically, the Sunsword and Holy Symbol of Ravenkind.

So the basic concept of Ravenloft is that the domains are prisons for the darklords created by the Dark Powers. Strahd is cursed to be forever punished for Tatyana's death.

I subscribe to the idea that Ravenloft is basically a "simulation" that was created to administer the darklord's punishment. This is supported by the fact that when Strahd dies, he is reborn by the Dark Powers and his pursuit of Ireena begins anew.

So if this is the case, can the Sunsword and Holy Symbol of Ravenkind - two items that are intrinsic to Strahd's "simulation"- be physically removed from Barovia by those that defeat Strahd and then escape the Mists?

Removing other items makes sense. Adventures and other creatures that get pulled into Ravenloft and die will leave their belongings behind. Those items aren't part of the simulation.

The reason I ask is because I will be running CoS soon and I plan on adding more content and potentially, some additional powerful items. It's a long way off but I want to create some "rules" for which items are tied to Ravenloft/Barovia and which are not.

 

[Stormonu]

Yes, they can be removed to be used by the players elsewhere. Would you run S2 White Plume Mountain and never lets the PCs take Wave, Whelm and Black Razor out of the dungeon?

 

[Bacon Bits]

I'm pretty sure that DDAL rules have a big list of items that don't leave their native module, but if you're not in DDAL then there's no reason to leave them behind unless you're the DM and want them left behind.

As a player, I'd feel rather cheated, however. Having a reward stolen is rarely fun.

If Ravenloft can trap and doom Strahd to an eternal Sisyphean punishment, surely it can replace items that are stolen or destroyed.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

Immediately to answer your question: the items themselves can leave Barovia, though the setting will always renew them eventually. Named characters are similar. Just as there will always be a Strahd, Ireena/Tatyanna, and a VanRichten, there will always be a Sunsword and Symbol of Ravenloft. If you want a meta way to view it, think of it as they players get sort of a "copy" that they leave with while the originals remain in the setting. You could take them away if you wish, but I'd suggest against it as it wouldn't be very fun for the players. Additionally, if you ever use any other Barovia plot lines (like including another domain of dread), you could easily have those items in the player's hands somehow introduce or tie into the other stories. After all, are they ever truly free of the mists if they are constantly carrying around a piece of them with them?

Sort of related to your post, though less immediately relevant and more food for thought/a suggestion concerning the whole "cycle" of Ravenloft thing:

Spoiler: One big whole "Spoiler" in general for those who might wish to play this game. You've been warned.

So when I ran my game, I did basically set up Barovia to be on sort of a timeless cycle repeat. Take from this what you will, it's sort of a mix of "cannon" stuff that we know about dark powers and Barovia and some other ideas that tie them together. Look up the "points of light" thread on here from awhile back for some good stuff as well.

I chose to tie this plot concept into both the Amber Temple and the character of the Abbot, whom is a fallen angel. It states in the module that he went into Barovia in the first place with the intent of cleansing the land of it's darkness and that the dark powers and perpetual hopelessness of the whole area has basically poisoned his mind. I took this and had him be partially related to the cycle, yet outside of it. Basically his "madness" was that he was the only being in the entire setup aside from the players who were NOT inherently stuck in this cycle, and that he had effectively lived through multiple versions of it. I had him outright imply to the party that he had tried just about everything he could think of, including killing Strahd in a previous loop (his CR is high enough that with proper planning he could feasibly accomplish it. Remember, his goal isn't just to escape or kill Strahd, it was originally to save the souls of every person in Barovia, which is basically just a pocket dimensional meat grinder for souls. It's implied that it isn't just a prison, but a place where others get trapped and the dark powers use their souls for their nebulous nefarious purposes elsewhere.

I had the Abbot tell the party that in order to truly end the cycle, the party must do one of two things:
1) Destroy ALL of the vestiges of evil in the Amber Temple (the sarcophagi, though he does not know that is the form they take). I had it so the reason the Abbot hasn't done this already is because he, as an angel, is barred from entering the temple via a permanent Guards/Wards spell. The important bit here: if even a single player takes even ONE of the deals from the sarcophagi the entire party FAILS at this goal. I chose to showcase this to my party by making the ones a person took indestructible, as no matter their efforts a sliver would always remain. Think of this as the "100% good ending" for a party to get. Barovia is all about trying to corrupt and making the players choose between powerful dark boons or being actually good is completely on theme.

2) Not only turn over Ireena to Strahd, but actually HELP him "win" by gaining the 'love'/'marriage' he's been prevented from having. The dark powers, meanwhile, will stop at nothing to prevent this from happening because if it does, their cage breaks and all the souls and their prisoner can escape. Absolutely evil, totally messed up, etc. but on point with the themes of the game. Choosing this option can be justified as "for the greater good" option, as it basically damns one woman to save the souls of multiple people (or at least that's how the Abbot views it).

Speaking of, THIS is the Abbot's go to plan if the party doesn't pursue option 1 OR if they take even a SINGLE deal or leave a SINGLE sarcophagi standing. The Abbot isn't human. He thinks like a good outsider in terms of black and white, good and evil, which have all been warped. He is UTTERLY convinced that if the party won't do the right thing, he will force them to or accomplish it himself. Failing that, he'll just begrudingly resign himself to trying again during the next cycle (what's a few 100 more years before Tatyanna and Strahd are reborn right?).

If you like the idea, go nuts with it. I should clarify as well, I never made it clear to the players if the Abbot was actually correct or just crazy. I implied that both either was equally valid.

My players did however love the whole hard choice dynamic. It culminated with a rather emotional session at the abbey where they handed over Ireena to Strahd in order to buy time to take on the temple after the Abbot turned on them and led to quite a few memorable scenes.

 

[Eltab]

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade -like, the artifacts that destroy Stradh are meant to stay in Barovia. But the PCs can take near-copies with them upon departure. The PCs enter the mists to leave and encounter a "dream sequence" with a guardian who explains the situation. If the PCs do not cooperate, they basically have a Revanent pursuing the artifacts (and them). The revanent will, if it gains possession of both artifacts, turn into a Ravenloft mist and "blow away" along with the items. When the artifacts are gone, somehow less bad stuff dogs the PVs, the sun shines brightly, &c. OTOH if the PCs do cooperate in the "dream sequence" they get mechanically identical items but which look subtly different - and 'good luck' follows them around for a while. The replacements may even have a 'minor magic item trait' from the DMG or Xanathar's.

 

[GlassJaw]

Yes, they can be removed to be used by the players elsewhere. Would you run S2 White Plume Mountain and never lets the PCs take Wave, Whelm and Black Razor out of the dungeon?

You didn't read my post clearly.

Immediately to answer your question: the items themselves can leave Barovia, though the setting will always renew them eventually. Named characters are similar. Just as there will always be a Strahd, Ireena/Tatyanna, and a VanRichten, there will always be a Sunsword and Symbol of Ravenloft. If you want a meta way to view it, think of it as they players get sort of a "copy" that they leave with while the originals remain in the setting. You could take them away if you wish, but I'd suggest against it as it wouldn't be very fun for the players.

Yeah this is what I'm leaning towards. They are cool items and the players will have earned them.

After all, are they ever truly free of the mists if they are constantly carrying around a piece of them with them?

Hehe, I like your style.

So when I ran my game, I did basically set up Barovia to be on sort of a timeless cycle repeat.

Same. I'm even going to go so far as to slowly provide clues to the players of this fact. For example if they return to the same places, they may see the "people" repeating the same actions or saying the same things. It will be subtle but at the minimum, it will give the players some insight over time that not all is as it seems.

One of the big way I intend to do this is with really simple things, like food. No matter where they go, the food they get is eerily similar everywhere.

The way I see it is the Dark Powers are focused on the big picture stuff, which is making the existence of the darklords utterly awful. They don't care about the small details, and those wanderers that come and go through the Mists are inconsequential, or at least only useful to perpetuate the prison itself.

These details can be considered glitches in the Matrix or flaws in the simulation because the ones that created it - the Dark Powers - aren't human themselves. For a great example of this, check out the Star Trek: TNG episode "The Royale".

I had the Abbot tell the party that in order to truly end the cycle, the party must do one of two things:

Wow I love this! I'm no doubt tying the Abbot in heavily in some way but you've given me a lot to think about. Thanks!

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's up to the DM, but I would rule that, as Barovia eventually "resets" those items can never be removed from Ravenloft. If the players somehow escape through the mists, they will simply melt into mist themselves.

However, my players tend not to be motivated by loot, so they wouldn't object to such an outcome. Some might be less happy about it.

 

[BrokenTwin]

I like the idea of the items lasting outside of Barovia until the next "reset", at which point they return to mist. Might make for an interesting future plot hook as well, if the party is in possession of one of these items, the motivation for discovering why it turned to mist could be a plot hook for returning.

Also, @MostlyHarmless42: I am TOTALLY stealing that idea for when I eventually get around to running CoS. His motivation and that dungeon always seemed a little meh to me, and that fleshes them out in great ways.

 

[GlassJaw]

It's up to the DM, but I would rule that, as Barovia eventually "resets" those items can never be removed from Ravenloft. If the players somehow escape through the mists, they will simply melt into mist themselves.

However, my players tend not to be motivated by loot, so they wouldn't object to such an outcome. Some might be less happy about it.

This was my original thought but I've gone back and forth on it. I see the pros and cons for both. My group also isn't motivated by loot per se (well except for one guy ) so I know I could sell it too them.

I'm currently leaning towards letting them keep stuff but I reserve the right to change my mind. Still a long ways away but it helps me establish my "rules" of how Ravenloft operates.

Another thing I've been debating is whether any inhabitants are aware of what's going on, namely that it's a prison for Strahd and that it will "reset". Given that I'm going for more of an actual simulation (a la the Matrix or Westworld), I've been leaning towards having a few people that are aware so there are avenues for the players to discover what's happening: definitely van Richten, maybe Madame Eva, the Abbot (although his perception is twisted).

I'm also brainstorming on a concept that the Dark Powers will "fight back" against those that get closer to the secret. The Dark Powers are fine with travelers coming and going - in fact, they need them - but they are not ok with those that "peek behind the curtain" so to speak.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I guess it is the DM's choice. The Curse of Strand is practically a remake, or a reboot, but in Ravenloft this is possible because there is a cyclical curse.

Other possibility is legendary artifacts created in the demiplane of dread or in Barovia (material plane) could be out, maybe left there by the own dark powers, with a curse: if the PCs from the material plane try to use these artifacts, even sacred weapons against unholy creatures, they could be abducted and sent to the demiplane to suffer a "weekend in the hell".

I wonder about the metaplot if there are new modules set in Ravenloft. My theory is we will see a compilation of the modules about the grand conjuction.