D&D 5E CoS: Ireena as a PC?

[jayoungr]

I'll be running Curse of Strahd for my group later this year. I admit to approaching it with some trepidation; my players are all much more experienced than I am, going back to 1E days, and they're also much more into gothic horror than I am. They've played through every previous iteration of Ravenloft multiple times, and Barovia has been firmly situated in their homebrew world (not on its own demiplane) for decades. I kind of wish one of them was running the game, but they all want me to run it so they can play.

So when we were talking about the new adventure, one of the players casually mentioned having played Ireena as a PC in previous games, and wanted to know whether I'd be okay with doing that again. I said I'd have to read through the book first.

Is this as crazy as it sounds at first? I admit I haven't finished reading the book yet. Clearly it worked in previous games...

If I allow it, what are the main things to watch out for?

 

[5Shilling]

I would say the main thing issue is spotlight stealing. Ireena is a huge part of Strahd's story, he's obsessed with her, and it would be hard to make the other players feel anywhere near as important.

As written, Ireena is likely to enter the campaign about halfway through session 1 (or session 2 or 3 if you run death house). You can find ways to change that of course.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I personally wouldn't do it, unless I told the person straight up front "You can play Ireena if you want to, but I'm stripping her of all the background and importance of the character from the story if you do." Because quite frankly, if you're trying to run a gothic horror campaign, the last thing that will help you in that is if one of the primary PCs already knows exactly what their character's story is.

I have an uphill battle already in one of my games due to many of the players having already played or at least read the original I6 Ravenloft module. So I'm purposefully changing things up just to screw with their perceptions. In fact... Ireena doesn't even appear in the village of Barovia, nor is she the adoptive daughter of the burgomaster-- Ismark is an only child. Where is Ireena? Players won't know what happened to her until much later. And this is strictly so that the players are kept on their toes and can't rely on past knowledge to try and game the system.

So I would never let someone play that NPC, Ireena, as-is. And this is DOUBLY true due to the player having the same exact character BEFORE. So not only does the player know the story from reading the adventure... they'll be constantly comparing how the character is playing in this campaign to the old one. Great. A wonderful opportunity for the player to constant bombard me with "Well, the last time I was able to do X, so I think I should--"...

No thanks. Not worth it to me at all. If the player cares about the story I am trying to tell, then let them create a new character just like everyone else and try and experience the game through fresh eyes, rather than a photocopy of a photocopy.

 

[bevedog]

I won't be able to have Ireena as a full-fledged PC, but I'm also concerned about making her central but not too central. She's also been revealed by the Tarokka cards as the party's special ally, so I want to be sure she can defend herself and be likely to survive the whole campaign while neither becoming a boat anchor or Wonder Woman.

Statting her up like a PC while keeping her an NPC seems like it might work? If so, OP and I could probably use some ideas there as for class/level/features.

 

[I'm A Banana]

It could work, but I wouldn't do it. In general, I want the PC's to feel protective of Ireena - she's the Mina Harker here, the purported victim (though she's certainly pro-active against her victimhood!).

You could have one of the PC's play Ismark - he's more like a PC with a specific plot hook.

If the party's used to a "weekend in hell" style Ravenloft, though, it's probably unnecessary. They know what they're in for.

 

[77IM]

I think it's a great idea and that you should go for it. If your players are already familiar with Ravenloft (and it sounds like they are) then you're not really spoiling any surprises with the Ireena/Tatiyana thing. And I think there are plenty of ways to prevent spotlight-stealing; remember that Strahd and his minions won't attack her, so they'll be engaging the other PCs.

I'd be more concerned with ferreting out what your players actually expect from the campaign, since they've already played it multiple times. Do they want constant subtle twists? Play it straight? A whole new experience?

 

[Sunseeker]

I would say no. I'd actually also say no to running the game.

 

[hawkeyefan]

I don't see a problem with it, and for a group of players who already know what to expect from the story, it might be a nice twist that helps change things up for them.

I'm doing something very different with Ireena than what's published. A few sessions back, a female diviner PC was taken captive by some of the campaign's villains. The PCs assumed it was for her prophetic visions....and they have since been trying to track her down.

Well it turns out that she is actually of Vistani lineage. It seems that Tatyana's soul was born to a Vistani this time around the rebirth cycle. It became obvious when she got older and Madame Eva recognized her as the image of Tatyana. So they shepherded the child out of Barovia and to Toril, where she was placed with a wealthy family. She was plagued by visions, but with some guidance was able to become a diviner, and then adopted the life of a wandering adventurer.

When the villains captured her, they sent her back to Barovia as a "gift" to Strahd. They feel that by giving him what he wants, they may be able to learn the mysteries of the demiplane, and perhaps even master them. Strahd's cooperation will go a long way toward achieving that goal.

I've replaced Ireena with a PC. She's being held by Baba Lysaga at the start of the adventure (I changed her back story, too) and will join the party if they manage to free her, and be under control of her original player. It alters some of the side quests and such, but I've come up with other reasons for them.

So I'd say go ahead and let the player use Ireena as a PC. And don't feel beholden to having him and his minions behave toward PC Ireena as they would toward NPC Ireena. If she takes such a strong stance against him, have him decide to destroy her and wait for the next rebirth.

Changing things up, especially in an adventure as well known as this, seems to me to be a good idea.

 

[Ancalagon]

I would say no. I'd actually also say no to running the game.

I agree that Ismark would make a better PC than Ireena... she's too much a focus.

As far as not running the game... a few thoughts on that:

1: People who both play and GM often end up feeling they are running the game they want to play (because no one else will), meaning they don't play the game they want to play in. That can be frustrating. These people are huge ravenloft folks, and you are the outsider savior that will allow all of them to play.

2: You could screw this up, but your ability as a GM is only half the story. The other is the player's attitudes and expectations. It could be that the players love the story, and are looking for a retelling from a different perspective - a reboot if you will. If the players come in with an open mind and are looking for the "same but different" feel, this could work great! If they somehow expect you to do it "just right" ... then that will never work.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

I would potentially allow it as an option, especially given that the players have done this module before, though as previously stated there is the issue of spotlight stealing, or attempted meta gaming. As previously stated, you should definitely consider seeing what your players are seeking from a game they've ran before, and Ismark is definitely a better pc option than Ireena. The whole comparing it to a previous game is a valid concern, though as they have all played the game before l, even a "fresh" character will still be compared to previous runs of this game, and that would probably encourage them to just play a previous character they've already done Ravenloft with anyway.

My larger concern would be meta-gsming in general. Switching around a few plot elements and character motivations might be in order, and I would *definitely* avoid any type of attempt to have a "Dinner with the Count" type of castle invitation unless you are okay with the fact that a group like what's described is pretty likely to start flinging spells and turn undead attempts before Strahd even says "Welcome!" If that is the case, mores the pity, because it turns a complex villain who loves to learn about his opponents and use this knowledge against them into instant attack mode and ultimately makes a great Gothic horror into a hack and slash dungeon crawl.

That all said...you seem to have a larger issue than just this game. You may wish to consider bowing out of running it if you aren't truly comfortable. NEVER let players bully you into running a game you don't wish to do. A DM is expected to be the arbiter of rules and to do so you need to maintain a level of control over what happens at the table. This isn't saying you should be the dick railroading tyrant DM, far from it, but getting bullied into running a game you don't want to do, and players doing something questionable and asking after the fact is NOT acceptable at the table. Again, the game is about having fun for everyone, but at the end of the day, the DM has to put forth quite a bit of prep work that players do not (perhaps why they don't want to run it themselves), and a bored or overwhelmed DM just makes the game not fun for anyone.

Should you go through with running the game. Establish one thing early on...this is YOUR Ravenloft, not their preestablished version from some old game ran by a buddy 20 years ago. You are welcome to ask them for input on any changes from the book and their "version" of Barovia and if you like the changes, use them. If not, don't. If they have issue with that, one of them should run the game.