D&D 5E CoS question -- DM ONLY, PLAYERS STAY AWAY!! --

psiconauta_retro · Aug 8, 2017

Just started reading Curse of Stradh.

Pg. 24: Sunlight in Barovia: The sunlight of Barovia´s sun isn’t considered as sunlight for purpose of vulnerabilities.

I feel I missed something, the main villain is a vampire, the foreword even says that they hoped to bring the vampire folktale to its original cautionary roots. One of the best well known ways to kill a vampire is to expose it to sunlight. Why would they put a “fake sun”?

I don’t remember that Ravenloft´s boxed sets mentioned this issue, back in the day we did use the Barovian sun to burn a few vampires…

This makes CoS´s Stradh and his minions to be day-walkers (like Blade…) yet according to the text “Stradh and his vampire spawn tend to stay indoors most of the day and venture out at night”… because… why?? Commonly the sunlight is what keeps the “horrors of the night” at bay during the day-time, allowing safety and time to plan, regroup, rest, recover, etc. If in this land the sun doesn’t damage the undead why do they stay indoors during the day?

To me this doesn’t make sense at all. I feel it takes away an important element for telling a classic gothic horror story. Which has been your experience with this issue? How did you handle it?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

Mercule · Aug 8, 2017

There are different versions of the vampire folklore -- I did a 10 page paper on it for a high school class (awesome). Dracula, for instance, didn't actually take damage from the sun. He was just (vaguely) weaker. So, the change actually makes Strahd more like Dracula, who is the archetypal modern vampire.

If you don't want Strahd walking around in the daylight, then don't have him do so. The sunlight is probably somewhat uncomfortable, anyway. Heck, for the spawn, let them behave with all the fear and revulsion of the sun that they would if it actually did light them up. Just wait for the PCs to be surprised when they drag the fiend out and nothing happens.

As far as why they might do it that way, well, it keeps the PCs from having any true "safe space" from Strahd, so the pressure keeps on them. It also adds the aforementioned surprise moment. By keeping the weakness to sunlight and only removing natural sunlight, it also doesn't hobble the PCs' arsenal (e.g. the daylight spell).

Ganymede81 · Aug 8, 2017

The immediately preceding sentences explain the rationale for this rule: the sun in Barovia is always obscured, whether by fog, clouds, or otherwise.

Why would the denizens of the dark still seek to avoid the light of day even if it does not kill them? Presumably, they still find daylight distasteful, unpleasant, or uncomfortable, even if it does not represent a mortal danger.

Mouseferatu · Aug 8, 2017

Mercule said:
There are different versions of the vampire folklore -- I did a 10 page paper on it for a high school class (awesome). Dracula, for instance, didn't actually take damage from the sun. He was just (vaguely) weaker. So, the change actually makes Strahd more like Dracula, who is the archetypal modern vampire.

This. "Sunlight kills vampires" is actually a relatively modern trope. (I mean, it may have existed in some older legends, but in terms of it being considered a popular/"default" vampire fact.) In most older myths and stories, sunlight either weakened and/or made vampires uncomfortable, if it had any real effect on them at all.

It's important to remember that, really, there is no single "vampire myth." Everything we consider "standard" about them is a hodgepodge of multiple different branches of folklore and cultural mythology, and there's far more than didn't make it into the modern stories than did. (When was the last time you saw a modern vampire stopped in her tracks because she was forced to count the number of seeds or grains of rice thrown in her path?)

thethain · Aug 8, 2017

For better or worse, it is always overcast, dreary and depressing in Barovia. The Morninglord has abandoned Barovia and can no longer protect the people from creatures of the night.

The choices are dreary by day, or dark by night. Get used to choosing between not good and bad, because in Barovia, it is basically every decision.

Mercule · Aug 8, 2017

Mouseferatu said:
It's important to remember that, really, there is no single "vampire myth." Everything we consider "standard" about them is a hodgepodge of multiple different branches of folklore and cultural mythology, and there's far more than didn't make it into the modern stories than did.

Definitely. In one myth, when a werewolf died, they became a vampire. In another, a murderer would rise as a vampire unless buried correctly. Excommunication could do the trick, too.

The stake could vary between yew, rosewood, and mountain ask (or "other"). It might kill them, paralyze them, or just hold them down.

Garlic is fairly recent, IIRC. Silver is rarely an issue, other than when vampire == werewolf. Running water may or may not be a blocker. The most convoluted way I recall to kill a vampire is to stake it, put rose petals (or communion wafers) under its tongue, cut off its head, bury them separately for three days, then dig them up and burn in different fires -- and I think I missed a step.

Also, many folklore vampires were a lot like ticks, swelling up when they'd fed. There weren't a lot of sexy vampires in folklore, either.

(When was the last time you saw a modern vampire stopped in her tracks because she was forced to count the number of seeds or grains of rice thrown in her path?)

Funny you should mention that. At Saturday's game, the topic came up and we couldn't remember which movie it was. There's one where the vampire actually has to count the grains of rice and the protagonist throws a handful (or more) out, but the vampire is also super fast at counting and says the number before they even hit the ground.

Rils · Aug 8, 2017

As noted, the "daylight" in Barovia isn't actual "sunlight" because it is perpetually overcast and foggy, that's why it doesn't count in regards to vulnerabilities. However, there are a couple of other sources of "sunlight" within the valley, notably the sunsword, which by-pass this and do affect the vulnerabilities.

On a related note: tip from a DM who just finished running this over the course of a year - don't hand your players the sunsword until the very last session, it totally dominates any encounter with vampires (even if they are played "correctly"...).

MrHotter · Aug 8, 2017

In my game, I've ruled that vampires can't change form while out during the day. That's how I remember it from Bram Stoker's Dracula. That would be a good enough reason for a vampire to avoid trying to move around in the daytime.

I'm also switching up the vampire powers with townsfolk and research giving the players false information. They'll find Strahd's weaknesses by finding the Tomb of Strahd or with some trial and error.

I had toyed with the idea of having the vampire powers based on a Tarroka reading, but I never got around to putting that together. I thought it may be interesting to have the powers be a bit more random so the players who read the monster manual may not know what is coming.

ccs · Aug 9, 2017

Mercule said:
Garlic is fairly recent, IIRC. Silver is rarely an issue, other than when vampire == werewolf. Running water may or may not be a blocker. The most convoluted way I recall to kill a vampire is to stake it, put rose petals (or communion wafers) under its tongue, cut off its head, bury them separately for three days, then dig them up and burn in different fires -- and I think I missed a step.

There's no such thing as too thorough. Especially when failure = a pissed off blood drinking monster coming after you as soon as it recovers. But for good measure you should probably do as many of these steps in broad daylight as possible.

Mercule said:
Funny you should mention that. At Saturday's game, the topic came up and we couldn't remember which movie it was. There's one where the vampire actually has to count the grains of rice and the protagonist throws a handful (or more) out, but the vampire is also super fast at counting and says the number before they even hit the ground.

Well, given that the delay this would cause you to either lose prey or possibly get killed, you probably get really good at speed counting if this is your weakness....