Cost of Core Books PDFs

[sjmiller]

"Naturally assumed?" The vast majority, if not all, of the PDF releases from the big guys (WotC, White Wolf, etc) have been the exact same files as the printed versions. Errata has been incorporated when new print relesases have been put together. Why would one "naturally assume" WotC would buck the trend and do differently?

I would of course love it if every time WotC became aware of errata that they update the PDFs, but I also feel that expecting them to do so is unrealistic. You are being overly harsh on WotC for simply business as usual.

I'll be honest with you, I have not ever bought a pdf from WotC, White Wolf, or any of the other large game companies except Steve Jackson Games. Even those were bought quite a few years ago. I do not know what their previous policy was. I was going under the assumption that they were operating in a manner similar to the way the multinational companies I have worked for operated. If one has consistent experience with a set of assumptions, one does not tend to assume that things are done differently. I was just calling it like I saw it.

Even if their prior method of handling errata was different, WotC has said that things are going to be new and improved with this edition. Since the handling of errata and pdfs was poor in the past, one hopes that things will be better now. I am sorry if my view is outside the norm and is potentially unreasonable to others. It's my personal opinion, which really only has to be reasonable to me.

 

[JoeGKushner]

"Naturally assumed?" The vast majority, if not all, of the PDF releases from the big guys (WotC, White Wolf, etc) have been the exact same files as the printed versions. Errata has been incorporated when new print relesases have been put together. Why would one "naturally assume" WotC would buck the trend and do differently?

I would of course love it if every time WotC became aware of errata that they update the PDFs, but I also feel that expecting them to do so is unrealistic. You are being overly harsh on WotC for simply business as usual.

Based on the previous 3.5 edition PDF's NEVER having errata incorporated... I feel that epxecting them to do so is extremely unrealistic but demanded nontheless as if you will, some "proof" that this is a "newer, kindler, more electronic friendly WoTC" which we can see it probably isn't based on the whole dropping buy the book, get the PDF at a reduced cost, or buy the book directly from WoTC, or the whole DDI itself.

It'd be nice, but thus far, no brass ring for WoTC in this field.

 

[JoeGKushner]

"Naturally assumed?" The vast majority, if not all, of the PDF releases from the big guys (WotC, White Wolf, etc) have been the exact same files as the printed versions. Errata has been incorporated when new print relesases have been put together. Why would one "naturally assume" WotC would buck the trend and do differently?

I would of course love it if every time WotC became aware of errata that they update the PDFs, but I also feel that expecting them to do so is unrealistic. You are being overly harsh on WotC for simply business as usual.

This is news to me. You're saying that books with known errata like Monster Manual III have that errata incorporated into 'em because that and Monster Manual IV might be two 3.5 books I'd get for the purpose of having the correct game mechanics.

Or are you saying that ONLY when a NEW PRINT version (not even a reprint as the recent core reprint of 4e proofs) of the book happens (extremely rare basically only happening with the core books) that errata is incorporated?

 

[IanArgent]

While I respect your assertion that the cost of the pdf is not out of line with the production costs and profit margins needed, I hope you can see where people are coming from on the other side of the issue. I did a bit of checking online for prices of the physical book, which has an MSRP of $34.95. Here is what I found:

• Amazon - $23.07
• Barnes & Noble - $25.16
• RPG Shop - $29.29
• Overstock - $21.92

Most of these places offer free shipping at that cost, so that has not been factored into the total cost. With the pdf running at $24.95, you can see where a number of people would be upset at cost of the pdf. For a product which is generally, but not always, viewed as a supplement to the physical book, it's hard to justify paying more for the pdf than the physical book. You yourself stated that the book costs more to produce than the pdf. Since we know you are not selling the books to Amazon, B&N, and the like at a loss, the cost of the pdf becomes a bit confusing.

Blaming WotC for Amazon's etc predatory pricing is picking the wrong target. They can afford to make a margin that requires scientific notation to see. I really doubt Wizards can.

 

[sjmiller]

Blaming WotC for Amazon's etc predatory pricing is picking the wrong target. They can afford to make a margin that requires scientific notation to see. I really doubt Wizards can.

If you read my message carefully, you will see that I am not blaming anyone in it. I am merely stating why some people would be upset at the cost of the pdfs. Heck, the first line of the message you quote says, "While I respect your assertion that the cost of the pdf is not out of line with the production costs and profit margins needed, I hope you can see where people are coming from on the other side of the issue." Is there any blame? Not in the least. I am trying to present to Scott what facts the general public have to make their decisions. If I were to blame WotC for something it would be blatantly obvious that I was blaming them.

 

[Pinotage]

Just wanted to point out that all three core books now have their bookmarks added, and that Keep on the Shadowfell now has all the 1" scale battlemaps added to it. Yay!

Pinotage

 

[SSquirrel]

I thought OneBookShelf (RPGNow and DrivethruRPG) took in the region of 30-35%. When the merger took place, I thought that was the number I saw mentioned, which was why some publishers left to other sites. So if WotC is giving 30% off, and OBS take 30% off what's remaining, it's not far off from the retail dead tree profit.

Pinotage

WotC drops book price from 34.95 to 24.95 on rpgnow. If RPGnow takes 30% of what remains, we see $17.47 left for WotC. People are trying to claim only $5-7 profit on a $30 book for the publisher, which is definitely too low and inaccurate from all cost analysis I've seen from game publishers before. WotC is still making more money by selling pdfs or they wouldn't be doing it.

 

[Fifth Element]

WotC drops book price from 34.95 to 24.95 on rpgnow. If RPGnow takes 30% of what remains, we see $17.47 left for WotC. People are trying to claim only $5-7 profit on a $30 book for the publisher, which is definitely too low and inaccurate from all cost analysis I've seen from game publishers before. WotC is still making more money by selling pdfs or they wouldn't be doing it.

But don't forget the potential for cannibalizing print book sales. If someone buys a PDF instead of a print book, that print book goes unsold and it cannot be unprinted. An unsold PDF costs nothing. An unsold book costs something. That has to be factored into the pricing equation, even if it is a fairly rare occurance.

 

[SSquirrel]

The fact is, no one in the US actually paid $34.95 for each book unless they just didn't try to find any of the deals readily available. Even most game stores sold it at a discount. I don't care about the retail price stamped on the book. What are people in the US actually "PAYING" for the books? Paying" $75 for a PDF bundle is more than what anyone in the US had to "Pay" for the hardcopies, and in most cases that included shipping.

Sweeping generalizations are usually a bad idea. I actually did. Do I get a cookie? I got hosed by Amazon even tho I ordered on March 1st, so rather than wait for another online ordering, I went and supported my FLGS. One that actually earns the F of FLGS.

 

[fenzer]

Sweeping generalizations are usually a bad idea. I actually did. Do I get a cookie? I got hosed by Amazon even tho I ordered on March 1st, so rather than wait for another online ordering, I went and supported my FLGS. One that actually earns the F of FLGS.

SSquirrel, you make a good point here. I am happy to pay more to have the product TODAY. If the cost of purchasing the book from a FLGS runs me a few cents a day more than ordering online, savings divided by number of days waiting, I am happy to go local. Yes, even if I have to pay full retail price.

I am a believer in the capitalist system. I want my FLGS to succeed. And yes, I bought the $100 bundle from my FLGS and was happy to do it.

PDFs are a middle ground, I get immediate satisfaction but only half a book. More often than not, I will hold out for the hard copy but in many cases, I have both, purchasing the PDF after having baught the physical copy.