Counter-spelling? How's it work...

[Lord Ravinous]

I been playin' wizards for a while and never really payed attention to counterspelling before (mainly cause it never came up) but, i want to exploit my every advantage from now on, so....

Could anyone tell me how exactly this works, cause I'm a bit unclear on it. Thanks for any and all help

 

[WizarDru]

Counterspelling is fairly simple, in concept, but in actual execution, I don't see it done, as often. It depends on the game, the spellcasters, and other factors.

Essentially, there are three ways to cast a counterspell:

1) Use Dispel Magic or Greater Dispel Magic
2) Use a direct polar opposite spell to the one being countered
3) Cast the exact same spell in response to the caster (white noise casting, essentially)

Here's the rub, though: you need to be able to cast the counterspell in reaction to the spell being cast. To do this, you need to either ready an action to cast a counterspell, or have an appropriate spell memorized as a quickened spell.

Then, per the SRD

If the target of the character's counterspell tries to cast a spell, the character makes a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, the character correctly identifies the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. (If the check fails, the character can't do either of these things.)

To complete the action, the character must cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If the character is able to cast the same spell and has it prepared (if the character prepares spells), the character casts it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.

Counterspelling Metamagic Spells: Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered.

So here's three quick examples:

1) Mage X casts a Fireball. Cleric Y has been waiting for this, and throws a greater dispelling to attempt to counter it.

2) Mage X casts a Fireball. Mage Z makes a spellcraft roll to identify the spell being cast, and then uses his own memorized Fireball spell to attempt to counter the spell.

3) Mage X casts a Haste spell to speed himself up. Mage Z, expecting this, casts a memorized Slow spell to automatically counter the haste spell.

Get the idea?

 

[Wraithdrit]

There are also some nifty extra counterspelling feats out there, I think limited to Magic of Faerun. The wizard character called Will in my CotSQ game (story hour link below) has two of them.

From the FR Campaign book: Improved Counterspell allows you to burn a spell from the same school that is one higher level than the offending spell for the counter spell. This allows for Will to be quite effective at countering invocations because he always has a few of them memorized (being an invoker).

From the Magic of Faerun book: Reactive Counterspell allows one to once per round counter a spell even if you have not readied an action to do so. This counts as your action. This also requires Improved Counterspell and Improved Initiative.

The end result is that unless Will has already acted, or unless he doesn't have a high enough spell from the same school he can counter almost anything. Makes for a lot less explosions in the game. I'm enjoying it so far.

- Wraith

 

[drnuncheon]

Yeah, most of the people I know don't bother with counterspelling either - they'd rather spend an action definitely doing something than an action maybe doing something - if the enemy casts, and if its a spell that they know, and if they can identify it...

If you use the counterspell-boosting feats from Forgotten Realms, it can become worthwhile, though - there are feats there that let you use a higher level spell of the same school (in case you don't have the right spell memorized) or that let you do it even without a prepared action.

J

 

[drnuncheon]

double post

 

[Lord Ravinous]

thanks guys, one last/quick question, can u counter spell-like abilites? if all the variables are in place.

 

[reichtfeld]

With Reactive Counterspell you can actually counterspell even if you've already taken an action in the current round. It is just counted as your action for the next round in the initiative order.

Round 1
Initiative 18: Bob the evoker casts fireball and it is not dispelled
Initiative 15: Joe the transmuter casts polymorph other, which Bob counterspells using dispel magic

Round 2
Initiative 18: Bob can take a move-equivalent action (which might include a quickened spell), but his standard action was used to counterspell Joe's polymorph in the previous round
Initiative 15: Joe casts a quadruple empowered magic missile, but Bob has the Improved Counterspell feat and sacrifices a 2nd level evocation to counterspell (2nd level being one higher than 1st level, which is what level magic missile is--metamagic level increases are ignored)

Bob's already acted in the turn, but Bob can counterspell Joe's polymorph other spell as it's being cast on initiative 15 if he has an appropriate spell prepared to do so. The counterspell will just count against his action in the next round. This is explained in the Forgotten Realms FAQ and should make Wraith's player very happy to know.

So far as counterspelling spell-like abilities, the core rulebooks say no. I know that counts for trying to counterspell using the same or opposite spell, but I am not sure if that also includes using dispel magic or greater dispelling. Since spell-like abilities with a duration are vulnerable to being dispelled and cannot operate in anti-magic, I'm liable to believe that you can counter them with a dispel as they are being used. But that's just how I read and interpret it. I'd love to read something definitive about that. I guess a true rules lawyer could take "spell-like abilities cannot be counterspelled or used as counterspells" at total face value without any consideration for using dispels.

 

[WizarDru]

thanks guys, one last/quick question, can u counter spell-like abilites? if all the variables are in place.

Assuming all other things being equal, then yes, you can. If it's a spell-like ability that mimics a known spell, such as Fireball, for example, or use one of the dispels to do it.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Here's the rub, though: you need to be able to cast the counterspell in reaction to the spell being cast. To do this, you need to either ready an action to cast a counterspell, or have an appropriate spell memorized as a quickened spell.

Quicken Spell will not work!

Quicken Spell will enable you to cast the spell as a free action, not as a reaction. You can only take free actions on your turn.

 

[Lord Ravinous]

Ok, thanks Wiz. I appreciate it.