Counterspelling: What is the correct procedure?

[Tar-Edhel]

I believe there is an Improved Counterspelling Feat out there somewhere (FR maybe?)

I can't remember the details but I think it allowed you to trade any spell from the same school, but one level higher, as the spell being countered.

IceBear

Exactly. FRCS p.35: Improved Counterspelling

Has anyone really ever used a counterspell? We play 3rd edition since day1 and I am still waiting to see that happen.

I toyed with the idea of a counterspelling specialist a few months ago but I finally dropped the idea. The concept is cool but I am afraid it is not a very effetive tactic. Well, not effective enough to take that path, IMHO.

 

[AuraSeer]

I've used counterspells only once, when another PC was arrested and forced to fight in the arena. I countered some of the spells his opponent threw at him, because that was a lot less obvious than throwing Fireballs in from the stands.

 

[Olive]

never, ever used a counterspell.

never. ever.

 

[Li Shenron]

You ready an action "to counterspell." You can only counterspell with that action. You cannot change your mind and cast Magic Missile on the opponent, or do anything else except counterspell.

Can you please post the reference in the corebooks?

 

[Li Shenron]

from SRD:

Counterspells

It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, the character is using the spell's energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.

How Counterspells Work: To use a counterspell, the character must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. the character does this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, the character elects to wait to complete his or her action until the character's opponent tries to cast a spell. (The character may still move at normal speed, since ready is a standard action.)

If the target of the character's counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, the character correctly identifies the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. (If the check fails, the character can't do either of these things.)

To complete the action, the character must cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If the character is able to cast the same spell and has it prepared (if the character prepares spells), the character casts it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.

Counterspelling Metamagic Spells: Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered.

Specific Exceptions: Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.

Dispel Magic as a Counterspell: The character can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and the character doesn't need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell.

I can't find from the SRD that you "ready a counterspell", it just says you ready to cast something: it is anyway fundamental for counterspelling that at least you don't know which spell you're going to cast when you ready. You may be required to know that you have to "alter" the spell to function as a counterspell (see below), but it's not written here in the SRD.

The bold part says that if you fail the Spellcraft check, you can't "counter". It doesn't say you can't cast something else.

The italic part says a counterspell is "altered", in fact a Slow used as counterspell doesn't Slow the target at all. You "alter" the spell when you cast it.

The underlined part says that to use Dispel Magic as counterspell you don't need the Spellcraft check.

Personally, I don't see any problem in allowing to ready a spell, make the Spellcraft check, and THEN if you fail you may cast Dispel Magic or anything else as the readied action. It definitely does not turn Counterspelling into a powerful tactic. And it is not in contrast with the SRD, although NOT allowing is not in contrast as well.

 

[Li Shenron]

(bump: more opinions welcome)

 

[Pax]

Exactly. FRCS p.35: Improved Counterspelling

Has anyone really ever used a counterspell? We play 3rd edition since day1 and I am still waiting to see that happen.

I toyed with the idea of a counterspelling specialist a few months ago but I finally dropped the idea. The concept is cool but I am afraid it is not a very effetive tactic. Well, not effective enough to take that path, IMHO.

Yes, actually. Nearly a half-dozen times, in a single enoer. heh.

Specifically, this was in teh Forge of Fury module, and we (being the experienced AD&D veterans we are) had, of course, found the "well" hidden rear entry.

Well, at one point, pretty much encamped there to rest-and-recover a bit, we got jumped by the (leftover) Troglodytes. The shaman kept trying to pelt us with RayofFrost, and having not much better to do with my 0-level slots (and being out of higher slots), I engaged in a counterspelling duel, heh. About, oh, five times ... theDM says "okay he's casting his spell" ,,, I'd make my spellcraft check (ludicrously easy, really ... even for a merely 3d level PC) ... I'd burn the slot to counter ... the DM would look a bit more peeved/frustrated. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Heh.

...

But, no ... never, not ONE single time, since then. With Improved Counterspell, and a Haste effect going, I might've considered it. Still ... I usually found it more profitable to ready a ranged attack, for "when an enemy begins spellcasitng" ... if I wasn't trying to pound him anyway (if you're only applying some small extra damage, sometimes delaying it until the enemy is mid-spellcasting can enhance the effects of your minor, non-Fighter-type contribution ...).

 

[hong]

Well, at one point, pretty much encamped there to rest-and-recover a bit, we got jumped by the (leftover) Troglodytes. The shaman kept trying to pelt us with RayofFrost, and having not much better to do with my 0-level slots (and being out of higher slots), I engaged in a counterspelling duel, heh.

Note that you need a spell at least one level higher than the spell you're countering, even with Improved Counterspell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that you need a spell at least one level higher than the spell you're countering, even with Improved Counterspell.

As a sorcerer with Ray of Frost, he wouldn't need to worry about it...

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

As a sorcerer with Ray of Frost, he wouldn't need to worry about it...

Hm, forgot about that. The reference to Improved Counterspell must have caused a brane fart.

In any case, you have to wonder about a DM who has an NPC cast the same spell five times in a row just to be countered....