Coup de grace vs. full attack

[diaglo]

from the SRD Helpless: A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (-5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks gets no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

so basically you have -5 off victim's AC due to their AC being 0. plus you get +4 to hit. they lose their previous dex bonus. and they lose shield bonus.

example... sleeping human in +2 mithril breastplate dex 14(+2) +2 hvy shield = AC 23 is now +2 mithril breastplate dex 0(-5) = AC 12

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets her sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die.
Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.
Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.

fort save for the above sleeping human is +10. and hps of 71

the one delivering the blow after drinking a potion of haste and getting the +4 is a 12str halfling twf ranger 6/ rogue 4 with a +1 small longsword(+16/+16/+11) and mw small dagger (+20/+15)

so the question is do you take 5 attacks on the sleeping human with a possible damage of 10d6 for sneak attack +3 str +3 magic + 3d6 for longsword + 2d3 for dagger + possible crit damage...

13d6 = 45.5 avg
2d3 = 4 avg
+6 = 55.5 avg before calculating misses (due to a 1) and crits (on a 19 or 20)

edit: and then have to roll off for init if you didn't kill him.


or do you coup de grace... auto crit.. 2d6 + 2 str +2 magic +2d6 sneak attack

4d6 = 14 avg + 4 = 18 + 10 = DC 28

 

[Gez]

You finally decided to read the d02 rules, Diaglo?

Anyway, with a coup de grâce, if the victim fails his save, he is instantly put at -10 hp. He has 71, and loses 18 because of the attack. It leaves him with 53. So, if he fails his save, he lose 63 more hit points.

Save is DC 28, and he has a +10 bonus. So, if he rolls 18 or more, he survives. So there's only a 85% probability for the CDG to finish him.

85% of 63 is 53.55.

So, the average CDG damage, in this instance, is 71.55.

Now, to calculate average damage for the TWF full attack. He has AC 12, you said. I'll use your stats (I suppose the halfling got 20 Dex and Weapon Finesse ?).

Each of his attack will succeed, unless he rolls a 1. Statistically, that's 95% success. Also, there's a 9.5% (95% of 10%) chance of, in effect, statistically doubling damage. (For this computation, we'll assume the instakill rule isn't used.)

95-9.5=85.5

So we're left, for each attack, with 5% chance of 0 damage, 85.5% chance of full damage, and 9.5% chance of doubled damage.

85% of 55.5 is 47.175
9.5% of 111 is 10.545
Total average damage is: 57.72.


The average CDG damage is higher.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Personally, I'd go for the five attacks, unless the victim is a "non-fighty" type.

I'm not sure why your weapons have different "to hit" values. With a light weapon in the off hand (the dagger), TWF just gives a -2 penalty to both hands. Why is one +16/+16/+11 and the other +20/+15? Also, how do you get +16 with a 12-STR halfling using TWF? I get: +1 (str) +9 (BAB) +1 (magic or mw) +1 (size) +1 (haste) +1 (Weapon focus, if he has it). With a +4 for prone target, that would be +17 to start (if he has Weapon Focus). So, if it's his favored enemy, than he's at +19 (if it's only second fav. enemy) but +21 (if it's his first fav. enemy), or at +18 or +20 without the WF feat, but why is the main weapon only +16? What am I missing--I haven't had much sleep, so I could be missing something really obvious.

For pure role play reasons, I'd probably go CDG. For survivability, I'd go all 5 attacks. Is your ranger smart enough to put survivability over hatred? Good luck!

 

[diaglo]

i messed up his fort save. it is +11.

and he has the renewal domain... ft2/clr6/morninglord of lathander 3

 

[diaglo]

i have weapon finese.. weapon focus (dagger) dex 18 str 12

i get +4 for sleeping guy.

 

[Thanee]

You cannot coup de grace a sleeping human, since in a surprise round you only get a standard action...



Bye
Thanee

 

[Gez]

If the guy's Fort save is +11 instead of +10, then that's 80% damage instead of 85% damage, so the average CDG damage is reduced to 68.4.

It's still better to CDG him.

 

[Li Shenron]

You cannot coup de grace a sleeping human, since in a surprise round you only get a standard action...



Bye
Thanee

I know you were joking, but I was actually thinking this for the full attack. Wouldn't the target wake up after the first attack? How could a DM allow a full-attack routine outside the initiative round?

 

[diaglo]

I know you were joking, but I was actually thinking this for the full attack. Wouldn't the target wake up after the first attack? How could a DM allow a full-attack routine outside the initiative round?

all those attacks are taking place the same 6 seconds aren't they?

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

Why do you want to kill your friend, diaglo?

all those attacks are taking place the same 6 seconds aren't they?

If you allow the Coup de Grâce that uses a full round action, you'd have to allow a full attack, even though, logically, the first short sword hit would wake up the sleeping character...

AR