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Cover to Dragon #310 [wow!]

Joshua Dyal said:
Specifically, a font that resembles this?

I will ask my fiancee the graphic designer and see what she can come up with. Having access to a veritable crapload of fonts might help her match it assuming it's a licensed font (most are, these days).

Failing that, my brother is a font geek and might know of a public domain version.
 

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Yeah, I don't mind a freeware font that sorta resembles it but isn't exactly right. In fact, I'd probably prefer that, not being one to spend $BIGNUM on fonts when I've got hundreds of freeones already.
 

Re: Re: More for Joshua

Mercule said:
Eh, better than the rest. I certainly wouldn't knock it. It's certainly not a showcase peice, but it's good enough to put in a main book at least.
And that's hardly Wilson's best work. Check out the very Brom-esque covers for the Witchfire Trilogy. Wilson is one of the main artists for Privateer Press.
 

buzz said:

a.) I don't really see how this is any sort of excuse. I'm supposed to like (or excuse) cheescake, conversion-van-esque fantasy art simply because there's precedent? I have been really impressed with WotC's (and the hobby in general's) move away from the kind of soft-porn fantasy that, say, Avalanche really embraces. It felt like progress. Ergo, when I see Elmore and his ilk, it just feels like regression to me.

2.) I would draw a distinction between cheesecake and "using the female (or male for that matter) form in a seductive way." I'm certianly not arguing from any perspective of moral outrage. E.g., Frazetta's work is masterful, imo, and it's full of naked people. It's the cheese (not as in cake, but as in lousy) factor that bugs me about Elmore's work the most. The fact that his take on fantasy seems to have fossilized sometime in the late 80s doesn't help either.

But, diff'rent strokes and all.

Hardly making an excuse for it, nor do I expect anyone to like it. I simply don't tink anyone should be surprised by it, nor outraged. I also really do not see this piece as cheesecake, nor as I defined it, "using the female form in a seductive way", which may be a bit too narrow a definition. Now Avalanche covers bother me. Those pieces feel they are pandering to me, and thatw ould not bother me so much if the content inisde was the sort of Heavy Metal magazine material the cover implies (which BTW is where the artist comes from). Instead it is a "historically accurate" game, so why not a historically accurate cover? Explaing your position on Frazetta and Elmore helpos me understand where you are coming from. I do have to agree, as soon as I saw the cover I thought of my early days of DnD in 1988, but fo me, thatw as a good thing.

I would be curious to know how artists's define cheesecake. I've known one photographer who activly sought out cheesecake image in her work. She did not consider it to be lousy, but it's own subgenre of several other genres.
 

Re: Re: Re: More for Joshua

Joshua Dyal said:

And that's hardly Wilson's best work. Check out the very Brom-esque covers for the Witchfire Trilogy. Wilson is one of the main artists for Privateer Press.
His, and Brian Snoddy's work are so central to the books, they are practically designers now. Good stuff.
 

As I've said before on these boards, Elmore just defines D&D for me. Just looking at one of his works instantly transports me to another world. I'd say that his backgrounds are the main element of his work that draws me in so effectively. I like his figures as well, I find that his level of detail also really brings the piece to life for me. I can understand how some people would see his female figures as somewhat "cheescake", although to me he doesn't always draw the exact same warrior woman with the exact same hair. Look at his Companions of the Lance piece. The women don't all look the same there:

http://www.larryelmore.com/LarryElmore/ZGallery/Color/zzPages/CompanionsoftheLance.html

I think he got his reputation of "big hair, big breasts, skimpy armour" from a few of his more generic works. I can see the monotony there but it really isn't a good example of his best work.

But really, I'm always a little confused when these artist threads end up in debates about who's better. It really is generally a matter of preference. I suppose the technical aspects can be argued, but I don't feel that most of the popular D&D artists can be faulted on technical aspects. It's all really stylistic differences to me.

On top of that, I enjoy the works of pretty much all the artists listed in the thread so far. And for the ones I don't like, I'm not really interested in slamming their work.

Here's some of my favourites. The first group are the artists who really bring Dungeons and Dragons to life for me:

Brom: the man does such fabulous, moody, dark pictures. He's always been a favourite of mine.

Todd Lockwood: Wow. I can't think of much else to say. His work just seems to have that breathtaking quality to it.

Clyde Caldwell: Probably a lot of nostalgia talking here, but he is still a favourite of mine. I know he does tend to focus on the "buxom wench" in his art, but he still does some amazing stuff that is very D&D for me.

Jeff Easley: not my favourite of all time, but definately has some great pieces.

These next guys do great stuff too, although they don't tend to have that "iconic Dungeons and Dragons" quality to me (but they are still cool none the less!):

Michael Whelan: his work is stunning. Easily one of my favourite fantasy artists of all time. The only reason his pics don't really scream "D&D" to me is that he hasn't done any D&D work (to my knowledge).

WAR: Cool stuff. It is a little comic-book like, but being a comic book fan myself that's not necessarily a bad thing. His work has a fantastic sense of motion and emotion.

Sean West: again, good stuff all around.

Matt Wilson: Is he the one that painted Bayushi Kachiko for L5R? If he is I definately enjoy his work.

William O' Conner: it's funny, but his people really aren't that great looking, and sometimes his work is a little flat (to me). But when he is on the ball, his work is just downright epic. There is some aspect to his pictures that is just so evocative, if I was going to get someone to paint a huge, dramatic epic scene I'd get him. Sometimes hit or miss, but overall some majestic, fantastic stuff. Examples:

http://www.wocillo.com/seas.htm

http://www.wocillo.com/arena.htm

http://www.wocillo.com/quest.htm

There's other great artists from my L5R days, but I can't remember them off hand without the cards in front of me.

Ultimately, I really think most of this comes down to personal preference. There's a lot of amazing fantasy art out there, I'm not looking to focus on the negative.

:)
 
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Skade said:
I would be curious to know how artists's define cheesecake.

Camp, or "cheesecake on purpose" is a staple of "modern" art, from Lichtenstein forward . . . done intelligently, and wittily, with a clear intent (clear to the artist, if not necessarily the veiwer) it lends itself to satire and social commentary.

On the other hand, when work is campy because of the artist's laziness, bad habits, lack of skill, or lack of vision . . . ouch. It can be tough to look at.

Personally, I think that what happens is that many (*coughmostcough*) illustrators -- fantasy and otherwise -- get stuck within a rut where they are constantly self-referencing to the point that their images become almost icons of themselves.

This is due to both the pressure of outside expectations, as well as the cold, hard financial necessity for an illustrator to sometimes stick where the money is-- even if they're bored with the genre and have entirely run out of things to say.

Some guys are mentally and spiritually "painting by the numbers" and chasing that paycheck, no different than any other undervalued, overworked cube-dweller.
 

On the interior art, Does anyone know who did the monk piece? I definitely enjoyed the art in this issue. I hope this is a trend to see see more quality art on the inside as well as on the outside.



-Psiblade
 
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Anyone have any links to any Otus art? I want to know if he's the same artist that I'm thinking of, the guy who did the old Dispater picture.
 


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