CR of 56 trolls, and alternate troll features.

[QuaziquestGM]

Really, what is the CR and EL for fighting 56 trolls at once? I'm considering a straight conversion of G1-3 to 3.5, and this is one of the encounters. The party of 7 or 8 should be level 8-12 according to the original module.


I'm also considering trying to run the trolls a bit truer to the original trolls.
Trolls in older editions didn't have rend, but simply could not be killed unless you used fire or acid to completely destroy the body. Also, if you hit with a rolled 20, then you severed an arm or the head of the troll, which continued to fight separately from the body. A completely dismembered troll would reassemble and completely regenerate in 3d6 rounds.

If I use the old troll ablilites, what is the estimated cr of one troll? Of 56?

 

[Rhun]

El would be about 16-17, I believe, just doing a quick calculation.

I'm not sure how I would rework it based on using the alternate troll abilities you pose.

 

[Alsander400]

By the book it's closer to an EL17 encounter than a EL 16 encounter, however...

This encounter (as it was in the original 1st edition adventure which I both played and later GMed) is either going to a walkover if the characters have sufficient access to area of effect fire spells or it's going to be a long, tedious battle where the characters are going to be "killing" a number of trolls each round but having fallen trolls regenerating and eventially re-joining the battle of not dealt with but in which the trolls are only striking the front rank characters in a natural 20 due to the likely high AC of characters at that level so not ever doing enough damage to be a crediable threat.

Or in short, it's likely going to be a short, pointless encounter or a long, painfully drawn out pointless encounter.

That being said, there are several places in G3 where the trolls stand a fair chance of being able to surround a party and the dungeon passageways are large enough that it is going to be hard to block off attacks from more than 1 direction barring magic such as wall of force. In this case the troll could be either a credible threat or a party killer depending on the characters access to crowd controll magic.

I doubt your house rules for the trolls are going to affect the balance of the combat at all. The trolls will rarely rend and on the flip side, they can already regenerate all damage apart from fire and acid and the odd extra attack from a "severed limb" is not going to up the threat level by much

 

[Jhaelen]

Really, what is the CR and EL for fighting 56 trolls at once?

CR isn't affected. EL: use the same EL as for 12 trolls. You aren't REALLY fighting all of the 56 trolls all at once, unless several of the trolls use ranged attacks or spells.

Additionally, as has already been pointed out, simply adding more monsters doesn't always increase the EL because area spells will easily take care of them.

 

[Delta]

Also, if you hit with a rolled 20, then you severed an arm or the head of the troll, which continued to fight separately from the body.

That wasn't really the case. You must be remembering a house rule or something.

Trolls could regenerate limbs, but there wasn't any rule for how they lost them in the first place (outside of a sword of sharpness or DM fiat).

 

[mvincent]

Really, what is the CR and EL for fighting 56 trolls at once?

CR is still 5 per troll. Total EL is 17 per the [url="http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d20encountercalculator.htm']Encounter Calculator[/url] (note that each doubling of opponents increases the EL by +2)

 

[Rhun]

Of course, if you consider that this encounter takes place in G3: Hall of the Fire Giant King, your PCs may no be properly equipped to deal with the trolls. If they come in loaded with cold spells and weapons to deal with the giants, they may end up having a (small) problem with the troll encounter.

 

[Jhaelen]

Of course, if you consider that this encounter takes place in G3: Hall of the Fire Giant King, your PCs may no be properly equipped to deal with the trolls. If they come in loaded with cold spells and weapons to deal with the giants, they may end up having a (small) problem with the troll encounter.

Maybe, but that's nothing that affects EL or CR. You don't adjust the CR of a werewolf because the party doesn't have silver weapons or the EL of an encounter with undead because the party's cleric has no turn attempts left.

CR & EL are always calculated assuming an average party of four (fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue) with average equipment.

 

[milo]

The party should have plenty of torches. They can always use those to kill the trolls. Probably a little slow though. I normally allow trolls to be killed with about half damage of total hp from fire or acid once they are knocked out.

 

[Caliban]

Maybe, but that's nothing that affects EL or CR. You don't adjust the CR of a werewolf because the party doesn't have silver weapons or the EL of an encounter with undead because the party's cleric has no turn attempts left.

I think its reasonable to adjust the EL based on factors like that. That's what the DM is for, to make on the spot judgements.

The CR/EL rules can't factor in things the party may or may not have, they have to assume an averag 4 person party. The DM has more knowledge of the individual PC's and party make up.