CR rating of Dread Wraith without Constitution Drain save

[Allegro]

One of my PCs I think had a run in with a Dread Wraith without a save on the constitution drain ability. Any thoughts on the CR rating of this modified wraith? My battered ego would like to think I was horribly outclassed and running was a sensible thing.

Wraith

 

[Nifft]

If the Con drain were cut in half, it'd be a wash.

Cheers, -- N

 

[akbearfoot]

I've never been a big fan of no-save death attacks.



A dread wraith can kill a character in 2-3 hits, easy. DC 25 fort save isn't even a sure thing for most players at the relevant CR.


At a +16 touch attack and having incorporeal traits, I think they are already a signifigant challenge for their CR. They will never miss, and have probably a 50/50 shot at con draining a fighter type...more like an 80% chance to drain a caster or rogue type.



I'd say +2 CR off the top of my head if you wanted to make the drain no-save....But then again as a player, if I knew they didnt allow a save then I would run from them. Like 1e/2e undead that drained levels....I'd rather die and make a new character than have to re-do 2 or 3 levels.

 

[milo]

That is pretty much intant TPK if you run into two of these at the appropriate CR.

 

[avr]

Are you sure it was an intentional change and not simply a mistake by the DM? Such things do happen.

 

[Allegro]

It more then likely was just a mistake, but since I’m not the DM I don’t know. I’m just using my part-time DM hat to guess what my PC encountered was a dread wraith since it was incorporeal, spring attacking, and con draining. So two level 12 PCs running from a CR 13 is wholly appropriate and my ego has been soothed. Thanks for the responses.