CR System--> :) or :( ?

[apsuman]

Also, is using a character's level as a CR viable. Monsters may be well tested, but what about an, I don't know, 7th level monk with 19000gp in stuff? Should this be considered on same par as CR7 monster? Does it work at some levels and not at others?

As long as it's real usable stuff and not a bunch of one-shot potions and beads of force, then yeah, I think it will be just fine?



g!

 

[LokiDR]

As long as it's real usable stuff and not a bunch of one-shot potions and beads of force, then yeah, I think it will be just fine?



g!

lol. I was hoping that thread wouldn't leak here. Oh well.

 

[Psion]

the problem is that the NPC classes add 1/2 CR, so a commoner 10 is a CR 5.

No, that's not the thumbrule. The thumbrule is that NPC classes are treated as 1 level less than their class level for the purposes of CR. But the thing is, unless you factor in NCI*, those number MIGHT work for warriors and adepts, but clearly commoners and experts won't match those two classes. It's too broad a brush.

Now if the rule was 1/2 level, that WOULD work better... for some NPC classes (not others, mind you.)

* - Non combat influence

 

[LokiDR]

There is a published NPC who is Rog 2, Adept 4 and he is listed as CR 4. He is also a goblin. Where did the other CR go? Or is goblin the mythical -1 ECL race?

 

[Hakkenshi]

While there is no official negative ECL race, the fact that a goblin is normally a fractional CR (1/2? 1/4?) justifies the lower CR for the NPC you mentioned.

And I still don't agree with the idea that an NPC with a PC class of a certain level would be an EL of the same level. It just doesn't work in actual play!

 

[Drawmack]

Remember that certain assumptions went into the CR system, the same assumption that went into the entire creation of the 3e core rules.

The assumption is high magic. If you're playing low magic the CRs will be off, way off. However so will then entire hit point system. If you're playing low magic I recomend grim -n- gritty combat rules they work nicely for low magic.

You also have to take individual party abilities and tactics into account. If you've got a party walking on the planes and Behir sticking out it's head and looking at the party is much, much more dangerous then the party coming up behind that same behir. I fing that house rules for modifying CR are always in need.

For example, my party has repeatedly done horribly against gaze attacks, so if a monster has a gaze attack it's CR is instantly +2 but I don't recommend that others do this. Also my party seems to make light work of monsters who use flight tactics so those get a -2 CR. This keeps the system balanced for me but it probably won't for you. I like the CR system but as with the rest of the core rules it needs to be used as a guideline and not a holy grail.

Another point that was made was XP. What I do is I use the monster's treasure listing. I calculate the monster's treasure and then half of that becomes XP at the value of 1gp = 1xp. Works pretty well for me slows down wealth and level gain. If the monster doesn't have treasure then I just assign XP arbitrarily.

I like the idea of assigning tasks a CR though I think I will do that, it will help me calculate how much gold and xp to award for things.

All in all this is a good thread and a great discussion on the possitives and negatives of CR, DR, EL and ECL.

good show.

 

[Psion]

And I still don't agree with the idea that an NPC with a PC class of a certain level would be an EL of the same level. It just doesn't work in actual play!

You don't agree with who? I wouldn't argue with you... if you look back at my first post in this thread, I expressed exactly that sentiment.

But that (EL = CR = PC Class level) is what the rules say.

 

[Psion]

There is a published NPC who is Rog 2, Adept 4 and he is listed as CR 4. He is also a goblin. Where did the other CR go? Or is goblin the mythical -1 ECL race?

By the rules, you do not reduce the CR of PC class creatures for low CR base creatures.

By the thumbrule, that CR is wrong. It should be either 5 or 6 depending on how you interperet the rule on NPC classes.

It might also be that the author tweaked the CR value to reflect what he feels the value should be (FDP did this in at leas one of their adventure). This could be a fair call considering the nature of the assertions in this thread.

Or it might just be screwed up!

 

[Oracular Vision]

The CR is usually accurate +/- 1 level. Giants are accurate, I think, but most creatures are rated too high for experienced players. For inexperienced players (defined as players who don't know the strengths and weaknesses of the creatures because they have never encountered them before), the CR system may be more accurate, although giants will be too high (the whole system shifts one level).

In designing about 50 dinosaurs using the wonderful but somewhat cryptic "How to Create a Monster" guidelines by Skip, I tried to use the included and nearly worthless CR "Guesstimator". The best thing to do is find a creature with similiar stats to yours and assign it the same CR. Adjust the CR after playtesting. It's an art, not a science...if necessary, make a simple list of your CR's for creatures, and even add notes about why you changed it. Mnemonic aids are very useful...

 

[Hakkenshi]

Sorry Psion, the disagreement had to do with the fact that LokiDR, apsuman and I had been discussing CRs in the "What's wrong with the Monk?" thread and it carried over