D&D 5E (2014) CR to Level calculation ?

[Ari Kanen]

Anyone know how CR relates to class level? If I wanted the party to take on a 4th level wizard, built using standard array, how difficult of a fight would that be for 4 2nd level PCs also using standard are?

 

[RhaezDaevan]

Perhaps the DMG will have it, but for now I don't think there are any guidelines on how they relate. Instead I'd stat it up how you want and then compare it to something that already has a CR, like the NPC mage.

 

[Theovis]

My off the cuff response is that an NPC with class levels might have Challenge score of about 3/4 their level, but it might be as little as 1/2.

It's a bit trickier than that, though: NPC's with spells tend to have spellcasting similar to the party (caster level roughly their Challenge score) but an asston more hit points. A 4th level wizard with access to 2nd level spells might destroy your 2nd level party pretty badly, but you really don't need that many attacks to take him down (he'll have like 22 hp or so). Initiative and surprise will probably determine who gets murdered.

 

[Tormyr]

The only class I can tell you with certainty is the wizard. Take a look at the example wizards in the MM, LMoP, and HotDQ. Wizards' CR are basically 2/3 of their level. The others are still a bit higher in level than their CR, but they seem to be closer. This will all be simpler in about a month.

EDIT: And the hit dice are d8. 1 for each spell caster level.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Note also that the sample NPC casters only have "Spellcasting," not any of the other class features associated with the full classes. Some of the class features are more useful outside of combat, or at least don't help in a single encounter, but it's still something.

 

[aramis erak]

Note also that the sample NPC casters only have "Spellcasting," not any of the other class features associated with the full classes. Some of the class features are more useful outside of combat, or at least don't help in a single encounter, but it's still something.

The NPC Knight has only some of the fighter-battlemaster's abilities, as well. Multi-attack for 2 strikes, leadership, and parry. Brave comes from out of nowhere...

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The NPC Knight has only some of the fighter-battlemaster's abilities, as well. Multi-attack for 2 strikes, leadership, and parry. Brave comes from out of nowhere...

Don't get me started. What's really tricky is figuring out how some of the change shape abilities of some of the monsters work. They usually end by saying something along the lines of the rest of the creatures statistics being replaced (or in some cases, added to) by the statistics of the form taken--except for legendary actions and class features. The only thing the book actually says is a "class feature" is spellcasting (in the intro part of the MM). But what about the assassin's sneak attack? Sounds like a class feature. But if you don't allow change shape to grant you that, should you allow it to grant you martial advantage from a hobgoblin, which is close to the same thing? Extra attack (which no monsters have) would be a class feature, but multiattack isn't.

 

[Rhenny]

It is hard to use CR to level directly. The advice in the DM section of basic packet basically says be careful throwing higher CR monsters at lower level PCs. In general, the DM should use CR to get a ball park estimate of what is nearly on level. But to more closely understand how difficult the encounter will be, we have use the XP budget and multiply by 1.5 for 2 foes..x2 for 3-6 foes, etc.

It is possible for a level 1 party to kill an Ogre (CR 2) for example, but if the Ogre gets to hit a PC, death could result. This is CR 2...450 xp. So, by the book, it is over the Deadly threshold for 4 PCs (4 PCs deadly encounter threshold is 400 xp).

 

[Athinar]

And the dumb wizard should die if it let the ogre get that close

5 first levels can beat a Ogre if done right

 

[Eric V]

The NPC Knight has only some of the fighter-battlemaster's abilities, as well. Multi-attack for 2 strikes, leadership, and parry. Brave comes from out of nowhere...

The assassin is missing its uncanny dodge ability, maybe something else.

For rogues, though there's only 2 examples, it's hard to extract a formula. The assassin is level 7 or 8 in abilities, the spy is level 3 or 4. The assassin is CR 8; the spy is CR 1/2. I haven't run them through the DMG yet though. It probably makes more sense there.