D&D 3E/3.5 Crafting and Balance? (3.5)

[irdeggman]

I misread your initial statement, my apologies.
But, on point, the amount of gold saved by item crafting turns one wizard level into hundreds of thousands of gold for the party, which seems to heavily out weigh the costs.

As I pointed out earlier per RAW you can't make money on crafting magic items

PHB pg 112

In general, a character can sell something for half its listed price.
Characters who want to upgrade to better armor or weaponry, for
example, can sell their old equipment for half price.

So when you character "sold" items to the party - he pretty much went into house-rule territory (disregard any use of common sense when attempting to analyze the rules, it only leads to madness )

 

[irdeggman]

Actually, I accounted for everything. The wizard was level eleven, he had spent nearly a year in the last 10 the party had been together to craft (and months to scribe his book), the items he crafted were those he could have crafted with his caster level, and he still starts out with 88,000 gp (leveling up more slowly doesn't magically reduce the amount of money a character earns in a party during the adventuring from 1st to 12th). A 1500gp limit seems pretty absurd, as I've been in enough campaigns to know that no PC spends his gold in 1500gp increments, he saves it. I think if I tried only allowing players buy items worth up to 1500gp, if I was DM (and I have been), there'd be a coup.
But all of this aside, the numbers would have been the same if we had played from level 1 up to level 12. Same gold, same equipment. And having the party wizard one level behind doesn't balance a 150,000gp increase in party wealth.

Actually this was a quirk of how the game started not how the setting is run.

As I read it that was the intent of the question - are magic stores readily available, is it a low magic item setting, etc. These are pertinent as to hwo things should be playing out in the game and any answers given.

As was pointed out the character who spent the better part of a year in-game would not only have gained less xp than the rest of the party, he would have earned less treasure since he didn't adventure and if spent that time crafting magic items he would have spent his money and xp while the others were gaining it.

This is an inherent problem with "backstory" for starting a game but it is something that should just be accepted as a trade off for moving forward.

 

[Herzog]

A bit of a sidestep, but:
My Artificer tried selling crafted Items to the party at 60%, and even 50% listed price (earning anyway by having reduced crafting costs).

Most of he party simply refused to pay more than it cost me.

The reasoning of the Druid (main healer in the party at that point) was:
If you are going to earn money from your contribution to the party (crafting), I am going to charge you for healing.

Although I didn't completely agree with him, the argument is valid: why would you get paid for one class ability, and not for another?

 

[Ibenadar]

A bit of a sidestep, but:
My Artificer tried selling crafted Items to the party at 60%, and even 50% listed price (earning anyway by having reduced crafting costs).

Most of he party simply refused to pay more than it cost me.

The reasoning of the Druid (main healer in the party at that point) was:
If you are going to earn money from your contribution to the party (crafting), I am going to charge you for healing.

Although I didn't completely agree with him, the argument is valid: why would you get paid for one class ability, and not for another?

I can think of one reason, dropping a few healing spells on the party doesn't cost XP and potentially knock him back a level.

 

[Dandu]

Destroy the druid for his insolence with the items you crafted.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The reasoning of the Druid (main healer in the party at that point) was:
If you are going to earn money from your contribution to the party (crafting), I am going to charge you for healing.

Although I didn't completely agree with him, the argument is valid: why would you get paid for one class ability, and not for another?

And how is the Druid going to repay the XP that went into the items??

 

[Uder]

Crafting feats aren't a problem until you either start at high levels and allow retro-crafting, or you get a player intent on stepping on the neck of the game and seeing if it chokes. If you get either of those, drop the crafting rules from the game, stop decorating Christmas trees, and play some D&D.

 

[Ibenadar]

Our biggest wonder about Crafting feats is how in hell do you use them in a campaign for other players without concocting house-rules to off-set the XP cost away from the crafter.

Its nice to have a whole bunch of "fluff" or situational magic items without throwing the game balance out fo the window.

"Say, wouldn't a folding boat be great if it was a miltary wagon. Ooh and one or two of those horsey figurines thingies too! I, for one am getting tired of the wandering monsters eating the mounts every time we go into a dungeon"

 

[Dandu]

Characters with less XP are supposed to gain XP at a higher rate, aren't they?

 

[jefgorbach]

As I pointed out earlier per RAW you can't make money on crafting magic items per PHB pg 112. So when you character "sold" items to the party - he pretty much went into house-rule territory (disregard any use of common sense when attempting to analyze the rules, it only leads to madness )

Not really. The general rule and its example state the items being sold are USED and thus in obvious need of some repair, reconditioning, recharging, etc so only worth half normal market value at best. Conversely, the items just crafted are NEW and thus worth full market value; although ancillary expenses such as needing a local vendor's license, renting a spot at the local flea market, sale's taxes, &etc would be reasonable reductions to his expected profits. Likewise he may need to offer a minor discount from competing vendors to entice customers.
Using a IRL example, I can purchase meat/veggies for full market price from the Big Box Grocery nearby or obtain the same items at the same (usually better) quality from the local farmer-flea market for about 95% market price.