D&D 5E Crash-Course On The Forgotten Realms

[Salthorae]

just doesn't add up... especially considering they poop in a bucket or a hole in the ground

Waterdeep has an extensive sewage system

If waterdeep was entirely flat (no tall buildings), 2M people would have 73 sq ft per person in a city that is 5.25 sq mi.

When you add in apartment buildings in entire districts that dynamic changes a lot. I think 2M is high, but it's not unreasonable.

 

[Zardnaar]

Waterdeep has an extensive sewage system

If waterdeep was entirely flat (no tall buildings), 2M people would have 73 sq ft per person in a city that is 5.25 sq mi.

When you add in apartment buildings in entire districts that dynamic changes a lot. I think 2M is high, but it's not unreasonable.

It's not high density apartment. They're 2 to 5 stories. Not block after block of them.

 

[Demetrios1453]

So, the only place I'm seeing the 2 million figure for Waterdeep is at Realms - Waterdeep | Dungeons & Dragons, which even in itself says they don't know if the number is true or not. It also doesn't indicate at all whether the number is for the population inside the walls, or also the surrounding area (which would bring it to near 3e levels, since the 3e FRCS had a population of city and surrounding country being at around 1.5 million). Honestly, it's such a ridiculously light overview of the city - it mentions a single street and the harbor, and that's it (!) - that I'm not sure it should be taken as authoritative.

SCAG, SKT, and Dragon Heist all fail to have give any population numbers for the city at all, as far as I can see.

With such a paucity of data for the 5e population, we're probably all just arguing over shapes in the clouds...

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The 2 million figure was also from 2e from what I recall. But it also said that most of the population did not live in the city itself.

Which was already said, and it makes perfect sense that way. The City within the Walls can easily support around 200 K.

 

[Eltab]

A dirty trick to let (disguised) dragons live in some parts of Waterdeep:
The anti-dragon field is centered on Aigheron's (sp?) old tower. The field is hemispheric with a flat bottom parallel to the ground. The tower was built on a small hill. Waterdeep is a seaport - so there is some land below "field level" right along the seashore.

When I DM'ed Rise of Tiamat, I made a big deal about Waterdeep being a magic "safe zone", and mentioned the resulting incoming waves of refugees. Surely the Cult of the Dragon would have tried to subvert the field - perhaps by sending a green dragon to swim into the harbor and raid the docks - and surely the Masked Lords would then have tried to "fill in the cracks".

 

[Beleriphon]

The 2 million figure was also from 2e from what I recall. But it also said that most of the population did not live in the city itself.

Which was already said, and it makes perfect sense that way. The City within the Walls can easily support around 200 K.

Depends, official population of Waterdeep is roughly 2 million, who those people are and where those people live isn't clear. It could be the walled city and suburbs and farming community that feeds the city or they could all be in the walls, because Waterdeep is basically London circa 1840. Of all of the nominally "normal" cities[1] in the Forgotten Realms Waterdeep is the most likely to have extensive magic used throughout the city for public works (because the masked lords can afford to pay for it), and the current Open Lord is a Chosen of Mystra, never mind that the Blackstaff (that is to say Khelben's successor) amounts to a public servant.

[1] I'm not counting anything in Halruaa or Thay. Halruaa is too crazy to count for anything, even by FR standards for crazy, and 99% of Thay's crazy magic is achieved by human sacrifice.

 

[tetrasodium]

Depends, official population of Waterdeep is roughly 2 million, who those people are and where those people live isn't clear. It could be the walled city and suburbs and farming community that feeds the city or they could all be in the walls, because Waterdeep is basically London circa 1840. Of all of the nominally "normal" cities[1] in the Forgotten Realms Waterdeep is the most likely to have extensive magic used throughout the city for public works (because the masked lords can afford to pay for it), and the current Open Lord is a Chosen of Mystra, never mind that the Blackstaff (that is to say Khelben's successor) amounts to a public servant.

[1] I'm not counting anything in Halruaa or Thay. Halruaa is too crazy to count for anything, even by FR standards for crazy, and 99% of Thay's crazy magic is achieved by human sacrifice.

that 1840 1.9mil figure for inner & outer london is massively larger than waterdeep at about 45miles across & 607 square miles, Waterdeep is 3.5x1.5 miles for 5.25 square miles. You are comparing an area smaller than inner london (light grey) to the popuation of outer london.

All of those little boroughs exist on that inner/outer(greater) london map because it's needed for governance. Waterdeep has the inner but not outer. People who were outside that dark grey area lived somewhere else that is not part of london*. A population of 2 mil would put its density somewhere around 10x the density of modern day Manila & Mumbai. Waterdeep has wards for it (smaller) equivalent to the light grey inner london. You also can't apply the powers in charge of waterdeep itself to hand wave logistical/hygene/general density related problems to undercliff because it's a lawless shantytown.

The idea that the ~100 mile stretch between waterdeep & daggerford is going to be a solid urban sprawl is just silly and ignores the fact that the greater london population grew by roughly half a mil between 1820 &1830 due to them building a rail system then. Eventually they finished that surface rail system & started the london underground (subway) in the 1860s. FR is nowhere near the point of being advanced enough for having (let alone building & operating) a train/rail system & jumping it forward to either of those points would drastically change the fabric of what FR is. FR should embrace what it is.

* otherwise known by terms such as another city or unclaimed/unsettled wilderness

 

[Beleriphon]

The idea that the ~100 mile stretch between waterdeep & daggerford is going to be a solid urban sprawl is just silly and ignores the fact that the greater london population grew by roughly half a mil between 1820 &1830 due to them building a rail system then. Eventually they finished that surface rail system & started the london underground (subway) in the 1860s. FR is nowhere near the point of being advanced enough for having (let alone building & operating) a train/rail system & jumping it forward to either of those points would drastically change the fabric of what FR is. FR should embrace what it is.

Again, Waterdeep is basically a city that gets used in the setting in way analogous to London circa the 1840s. The numbers are arbitrarily selected to match what the city represents, like much of D&D.

I'd point out that Waterdeep has also settled the first layer of Undermountain as well, and has a very advanced sewer system, much more so than most major cities did until the lat 19th or early 20th century. The whole city is stupidly anachronistic and none of it makes sense.

 

[tetrasodium]

Again, Waterdeep is basically a city that gets used in the setting in way analogous to London circa the 1840s. The numbers are arbitrarily selected to match what the city represents, like much of D&D.

I'd point out that Waterdeep has also settled the first layer of Undermountain as well, and has a very advanced sewer system, much more so than most major cities did until the lat 19th or early 20th century. The whole city is stupidly anachronistic and none of it makes sense.

that literally has zero relevance to any of what I said, nor does it address any of those problems you selectively quoted. The Tippyverse has widespread create food boxes & permanent teleport circles everywhere not FR.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Important Forgotten Realms Fact: Halflings are not all cannibals.

That is all; carry on.