D&D 5E Crazy dice ideas

[Cyberen]

Some clever ideas have been thrown around in other threads, which made me wonder about some possible design decisions regarding dice use in combat :
damage as a function of the wielder, not the weapon :
when assigning a damage potential to each character/monster, what about assigning it to its build (class/level/theme/feats/whatever) rather than to a weapon. For instance, Fighters could be d10, rogues d6 melee damage, regardless of their weapon. This die value could be combined with expertise (for example, a lvl 5 fighter could have 3 maneuvers dice available, at d10 value when used for dealing melee damage). Feats / weapons would open maneuvers (such as 2-Handed : apply your str mod to damage, or Blade Defence : you have advantage on one die when you parry). It opens a huge design space while staying true to DnD, I think.
Schroedinger HP
(I know I'm asking for it )
I am a huge fan of HP design in 4E, with number of surges and surge value defining two axes (in 4E : pacing and staying power in combat, roughly). If this clever design is to be ditched, let's use some of the design space around HP differently. What about characters not having HP on their sheet, but only Hit Dice. These dice would get rolled only to counter some "hit". For example, if Bob the Fighter takes a 8-damage hit, he has to pay for it rolling hit dice : at least 1, possibly more if he doesn't roll high enough on his d10. If we track the unspent extra points, Bob has exactly the same HP total he would have if he had his HP total rolled at levelling-up, so the game balance doesn't change for a single combat... but now Bob is no longer aware of the fuel remaining in his tank, which makes combat riskier and imho more exciting. It also open a huge design space for dice tricks spending those Hit Dice simulating buffs/debuffs. Imagine an Assassin "Death Attack" as giving the target disadvantage on all his dice, "Coup de Grâce" as minimizing target dice, etc... It gives the same class differnetiation and plot protection for high level characters as our HP system, but cuts some of the high HP sillyness due to the HP attrition game being played with perfect information (as in "I have 80 HP so this 10d6 fall cannot possibly kill me"). Of course, the added variance is going to work against the PC in the long run, but this problem could be addressed via (intersesting) healing rules, adequate group/PC builds, etc. In this paradigm, HD is explicitly damage mitigation, so you don't get wounded until you get dropped, so hopefully, having a Battle Captain giving you tactical insight or yelling to hold the line can plausibly help you on your HD rolls.
Can it work ? Is it still DnD for you ?

 

[kerleth]

While I highly doubt Next will go in that direction, your idea sounds interesting. If I saw it as some sort of module or as the ruleset for a game I would pick it up and read more about the specifics.

 

[GhostBear]

13th Age has weapon damage scale with the wielder. The damage you deal with a weapon is based on the size of the weapon (small, one handed, two handed, I forget the exact categories but there's only a few of them) which determines what die you use, multiplied by your level.

So a level 1 fighter with "a sword" does 1d8 damage; a 3rd level fighter does 3d8.

The cool thing is that you don't have people using a greatsword all the time because it does more damage, as is often the case in 3.5. You pick what sounds cool and fits the character concept.

As the characters gain levels you end up with a lot of dice, but the rules suggest that you just deal the average and only actually roll all those dice when it is thematically appropriate. Speeds up combat since you know the damage to be applied ahead of time.

I like the concept, haven't tried the system out yet, but I plan on it soon-ish.

 

[Greenfield]

If you do that, expect everyone to start wielding daggers, or possibly dinner forks.

I mean, why burden yourself with a heavy object like a sword when any sharp stick you find on the ground works just as well?

Sorry, just thinking like a gamer...

 

[Crowsion]

I like your Schroedinger HP idea. I'm thinking, how about characters start off with the normal max HD + Con Mod, and gain only their Con Mod to their HP every level. The way damage would work is if the player ends their turn with less HP then their normal (not max) they roll as many hit dice as required to get back above that number. This effectively creates a massive damage threshold because their HP will be significantly less. Except that in order to keep it effectively the same/balanced characters get twice the amount of hit dice but can only use half during combat, the other half would require the use of healing kits etc.

Ex. A level 5 fighter HD d10, 14 Constitution, would have 20 hp (instead of 44) and 10 hit dice. If he got hit by a claw attack and suffers 5 points of damage and 6 from a second he would have 9 hit points remaining. At the end of his next turn he would roll xd10. Lets say he rolled; 6,3, and a 5. This would bring him to 23 hit points. But if he were to fall off a ledge and plummet, he wouldn't be able to fall nearly as far as his 44 hit point counterpart.

 

[technoextreme]

If you do that, expect everyone to start wielding daggers, or possibly dinner forks.

I mean, why burden yourself with a heavy object like a sword when any sharp stick you find on the ground works just as well?

Sorry, just thinking like a gamer...

Its kind of a dumb argument given that half the weapons in D&D all ready lean closer to dinner fork than they do actual weapons.

 

[Greenfield]

I like your Schroedinger HP idea. I'm thinking, how about characters start off with the normal max HD + Con Mod, and gain only their Con Mod to their HP every level. The way damage would work is if the player ends their turn with less HP then their normal (not max) they roll as many hit dice as required to get back above that number. This effectively creates a massive damage threshold because their HP will be significantly less. Except that in order to keep it effectively the same/balanced characters get twice the amount of hit dice but can only use half during combat, the other half would require the use of healing kits etc.

Ex. A level 5 fighter HD d10, 14 Constitution, would have 20 hp (instead of 44) and 10 hit dice. If he got hit by a claw attack and suffers 5 points of damage and 6 from a second he would have 9 hit points remaining. At the end of his next turn he would roll xd10. Lets say he rolled; 6,3, and a 5. This would bring him to 23 hit points. But if he were to fall off a ledge and plummet, he wouldn't be able to fall nearly as far as his 44 hit point counterpart.

So the guy with the 10 CON never gains any hit points?

And if they start with a low CON, say an 8, then they die a little bit every level?

Just asking. In some editions (3.0, 3.5) there were racial packages that penalized CON, and of course it was always possible to buy it low on purpose, or just roll badly if that was your generation method.

 

[Greenfield]

Its kind of a dumb argument given that half the weapons in D&D all ready lean closer to dinner fork than they do actual weapons.

Well, why spend the money on a long sword when a short sword, rapier, dagger, butter knife or popsicle stick all do the same damage?

If you're playing a game where encumbrance counts, or where starting money is tight, expect player characters to save where they can.

(By the way, calling my argument dumb based on your dislike of D&D weapons is not only misdirected, it's rude. If you don't like the game, what are you doing in this forum?)

 

[Crowsion]

And if they start with a low CON, say an 8, then they die a little bit every level?

Yeah, I realized that also, I assumed that one would say minimum 1. Although, maybe a 1 + CON Mod would be better, that way someone with 8 con isn't dwindling away.

OR, one could look at it as if adventure is so exhausting for that character, facing so many threats is actually making them weaker instead of stronger.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I like this idea, altho doubt it will make it into any official 'DnD' ruleset as it is a significant departure from the norm.

There are at least two threads I have followed here that would tie very nicely together.

The first is 'weapons as effects', which posits damage as a function of the wielder, not the weapon. Leaving design space for weapons to differentiate by tricks, features, etc... broadening use vice increasing damage.

The second thread is about skill use and tools. The concept is that you need both skill and the right tool. Skill only gets you so far. Inferior tools don't help much.
The specific post link here

Regretfully my search is failing to find the first thread here.


Bring these two ideas into play and you get:
- martial skill or mundane skill gives a dice boost
- better tools/weapons give dice boosts
- different tools/weapons enable special tricks or maneuvers and may have disadvantages.

fx, the 'Man-Catcher' polearm doesn't deal much damage but can trap the target and hold them at range. It is also unwieldy. This could be reflected by causing disadvantage on attacks and a special maneuver of 'trap' that uses up 2 or 3 expertise dice.